wingsinthewater (kjesta) wrote in ohnotheydidnt,
wingsinthewater
kjesta
ohnotheydidnt

Florence + The Machine request free labour from fan artists

https://instagram.com/p/Cg18IviK9CW



(The mock-up posters in the post are also fanart btw.)

In a post shared on the band’s social media yesterday, fans are encouraged to enter a poster design contest to promote the upcoming tour. Florence herself will pick the winners, who will be “commissioned” and receive two concert tickets as well as a small number of their posters in print, signed by Florence. What kind of financial the “commission” entails is not detailed.

Since then, many fans have voiced their outrage.



  • What...? The poster artist should be fairly compensated. Surely designing the poster for a major tour - which will make tons of money and needs this poster as a vehicle for that - is worth a lot more than 2 tickets and a signed poster. Not a good deal

  • Hard pass. Pay an artist fairly and they could easily afford their own tickets. https://www.nospec.com/articles/just-say-no/

  • It's nice that you are opening this up to a public pool of artists. But paying one or even several young artist for their hard work and genius in concert tickets is kind of demeaning. I'm sure you are going to get a million entries and an artist can't eat off of concert tickets. This is in bad taste.


This particular example is far from the first contest of its kind, fanart contests are a popular way to save money on properly commissioning art from working artists. Even if the chosen artists receive money, there will be countless fan artists putting in hours to create work designed explicitly for the commercial purpose of promoting the band in an official capacity. This is free spec work and a big issue in why artists’ work is so undervalued and underpaid. Many articles and thinkpieces have been written on why these kind of contests are hurting artists.

It is particularly disappointing given that Florence recently received an honorary degree from London’s University of the Arts, where she was on her way to an illustration degree but dropped out once the music thing took off. In a touching and emotional speech, she talks about the importance of the arts to society and how important artists are. Now imagine if her business showed good ethics towards the work of artists too! Maybe those graduates would have an easier time in their field.

[Florence's speech at the ceremony.]

Sources 1, 2, 3

OP note: I am obviously a massive fan, therefore I am really hurt to see this. I always admired her as someone of great integrity, and I’m hoping that the backlash will be enough to change this marketing strategy. As a suggestion, why not commission the recent graduates of Florence’s illustration degree programme for posters for the different tour stops? Or let fans send in small samplers of previous work, then pick artists to commission based on those?

Tags: british celebrities, florence + the machine, music / musician
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sandstorm

sandstorm

August 5 2022, 21:55:41 UTC 3 days ago

Uh, if she has an IG, that's why people are posting their art there. Look at it, reach out. I know it might be easier to do this because the person you find may not be a big fan or even know her, but this is not the way to go. Ask people to submit portfolios!
wonheaux

wonheaux

August 5 2022, 22:00:20 UTC 3 days ago

she's basically one of those people who messages artists asking for free art, lmao.
kjesta

kjesta

August 5 2022, 22:07:37 UTC 3 days ago

Apparently it's not even the first time the band has done this either... Found an old Reddit post where a fan artists speaks about it. Yikes yikes yikes.
slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

August 5 2022, 22:08:50 UTC 3 days ago

I dont get this one. Id love to win some free tickets and work on art inspired bu my fav band, considering entering tbh.
ginainabottle

ginainabottle

August 5 2022, 22:09:41 UTC 3 days ago

do you work as an artist for a living?
slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

August 5 2022, 22:16:04 UTC 3 days ago

I did graphic design for 3 years and now im unemployed and in school oop. Its one poster. Its not like someone hired med and now wants my work for exposure. The rules are all laid out, you want free tickets or you dont. Just dont do it if youre busy, damn.
ginainabottle

ginainabottle

3 days ago

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slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

3 days ago

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ginainabottle

ginainabottle

2 days ago

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slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

2 days ago

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cleanofslate

cleanofslate

2 days ago

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toshi_hakari

toshi_hakari

2 days ago

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slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

2 days ago

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howlin_wolf_66

howlin_wolf_66

2 days ago

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toshi_hakari

toshi_hakari

2 days ago

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howlin_wolf_66

howlin_wolf_66

2 days ago

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blahblah890

blahblah890

August 5 2022, 22:14:01 UTC 3 days ago

They feel it's taking wages from someone who could have been hired to create the poster. And the other posters people enter are unpaid labor. Of course they probably wouldn't have hired an artist but a marketing firm.
slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

3 days ago

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vazabroc

vazabroc

2 days ago

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slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

2 days ago

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genbu_no_miko24

genbu_no_miko24

August 5 2022, 22:16:00 UTC 3 days ago

I thought the same too because I've heard of contests like this in the past but:

"Even if the chosen artists receive money, there will be countless fan artists putting in hours to create work designed explicitly for the commercial purpose of promoting the band in an official capacity."

The countless hours and not winning isn't my problem but looks like a cheap way to get artwork done instead of getting an established artist and paying whatever the fee is.

Like some rando who does it as a hobby or isn't that serious would probably be cheaper than someone who's serious and probably has a better understanding of pricing and other legalities.
slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

3 days ago

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kjesta

kjesta

3 days ago

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slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

2 days ago

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kjesta

kjesta

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slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

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kjesta

kjesta

2 days ago

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slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

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likeiused2

likeiused2

2 days ago

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slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

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likeiused2

likeiused2

2 days ago

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matsjhummels

matsjhummels

2 days ago

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kjesta

kjesta

2 days ago

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slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

2 days ago

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matsjhummels

matsjhummels

2 days ago

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kaiserschmarrn

kaiserschmarrn

2 days ago

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slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

2 days ago

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kaiserschmarrn

kaiserschmarrn

2 days ago

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slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

2 days ago

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genbu_no_miko24

genbu_no_miko24

2 days ago

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slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

2 days ago

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pi_lady

pi_lady

August 5 2022, 22:58:38 UTC 2 days ago

I'd agree if it was just a contest to get tickets and the work wouldn't be used beyond announcing a winner. But they are going to use this on various mediums, press materials to promote their tour. They just don't want to hire a freelancer or agency.
slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

2 days ago

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booksforlunch

booksforlunch

2 days ago

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slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

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booksforlunch

booksforlunch

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slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

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pi_lady

pi_lady

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slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

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ashtrayrock

ashtrayrock

August 5 2022, 23:05:02 UTC 2 days ago

Eeeeeeeeeh, like I get the argument that no one is forcing you to enter, etc, etc. But it does buy into the culture of large of art being undervalued or in a lot of cases not valued at all. The more shit like this happens the less and less people value actual talent and even just straight up time and effort. Oh Florence got a bunch of people to do art for her for the chance of a ticket so why do I need to pay? It's just getting harder and harder for actual artist to make a legit living at it and when you have people in the public like this, or companies (freaking fortnite was running a "make art and we might show it in game" contest) that can afford to commission and pay artist what they're worth not doing it? It makes it so much harder to get what you're worth from the average joe.

Exposure, tickets, meal comps, etc don't pay people's bills. I could legitimately have a job every weekend in my town shooting events but they all want to pay me with a dinner ticket now because "oh we're a fundraiser" all while still paying other vendors. Well that's great, where's my mortgage fundraiser?

I realize I am also salty about shit at large but just yeah. Cool idea, fun if you were like 5 and your city wanted a picture of "fun things we do in town" and the prize was ice cream. But not as fun when she has the means to hire and pay someone what they are worth.
slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

2 days ago

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theactualworst

theactualworst

August 5 2022, 23:23:20 UTC 2 days ago

Yeah I mean no one HAS to enter lol. It’d be one thing if she hired someone and then was like “ok I’m gonna pay you in tickets” but this isn’t that.
blahblahcakes64

blahblahcakes64

August 6 2022, 00:19:13 UTC 2 days ago

I negotiate IP rights as my job; the concern here isn't about a "hypothetical" job. I haven't read the terms of entry, but you should. How these things often work is that FatM will almost certainly own all of the rights to the winning artwork (and perhaps all of the entries), meaning they can print, merchandise, distribute, edit/adjust the artwork on any item, in any context, for any price, with you getting zero say or cut. It's more LIKELY that they'll use the poster for this tour and maybe a few t-shirts (still a good chunk of $$$ you'd be missing out on), but regardless you might not even be able to put on your website that YOU made the design.

But, as I said, I haven't read the terms of entry. I hope I'm wrong! But read it CAREFULLY.
slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

2 days ago

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kjesta

kjesta

2 days ago

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slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

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blahblahcakes64

blahblahcakes64

2 days ago

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slaughtermatic

slaughtermatic

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musicnkisses

musicnkisses

August 5 2022, 22:09:48 UTC 3 days ago

I feel like if you win you gotta be able to meet her to make it a financially feasible prize. How much do her tickets go for?
tsukino

tsukino

August 6 2022, 04:22:43 UTC 2 days ago

I choose to look at the closest to me in Chicago and 2 tickets sitting together is $200-570. But New York is $330 to $643. This total for both seats. They also are doing some festivals with other acts that would be around $500 for two tickets but standing room only. But idk if they'd let you choose those dates.
zakara

zakara

August 6 2022, 12:33:58 UTC 2 days ago

wow I'm surprised they're so expensive! Lots of bigger artists are way cheaper!
tsukino

tsukino

2 days ago

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sashwizzled

sashwizzled

August 6 2022, 18:39:38 UTC 2 days ago

omfg I sang Dog Days Are Over at a student concert last month and got €0.00, I need to go pro and get famous or some shit.
tsukino

tsukino

1 day ago

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ginainabottle

ginainabottle

August 5 2022, 22:14:14 UTC 3 days ago

it'll never cease to amaze me how chill people are - especially rich ones - about asking others to work for crumbs. Reminds me of a quote from Cacilda Becker, an iconic brazilian actress, about her work - do not ask me to give you for free the only thing I have to sell.
blahblah890

blahblah890

August 5 2022, 22:18:56 UTC 3 days ago

Do artists provide a sample to get the commission? Like an architect creating a model of their design to get the project. I want to know what the difference is between a hundred artists creating a sample design to get a commission and this contest.

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blahblah890

blahblah890

August 5 2022, 22:36:22 UTC 3 days ago

Thank you for the response. I don't know much about this and it seems interesting.
kjesta

kjesta

August 5 2022, 22:38:56 UTC 2 days ago

I'd feel very differently if the contest brief was, "Send us 5 pieces of your best artwork and a little concept sketch of what your poster would look like!" And then they could pick designs based off that. Idk it rly doesn't take much to improve it.

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kjesta

kjesta

2 days ago

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sandstorm

sandstorm

August 5 2022, 22:19:53 UTC 3 days ago

I do contract work; If she's concerned about someone trying to take 200 hours at 85$ an hour or so, I can imagine a few ways around that; Set a hard cap on 30 hours, Pay 1000$ at each stage, hell, ask the artist what they would like.
manu19

manu19

August 5 2022, 22:28:48 UTC 3 days ago Edited:  August 5 2022, 22:30:06 UTC

I mean if there are fans happy to do it? I don’t see the issue 🤷🏼‍♂️ people who love their job may do it for fun in their spare time. It’s no different than me drawing the very best Christmas tree I have ever done as a child to Santa and hoping I would be picked for the chocolate basket win.

It’s not like they are putting a gun to their head, forcing them to design a poster
kjesta

kjesta

August 5 2022, 22:36:19 UTC 3 days ago

But is the Christmas tree being used as promotional material to create a profit by Santa? That's where the issue lies. Cute little art contests are all fine by me, but when it's clearly commercial work, it gets reall muddy really quickly.

Florence isn't the root cause of this problem. But it is a known and much-written-about issue that artists' work is devalued and the industry and working artists are hurting for it. Want your fans to give you work to promote your brand? Pay them for it.
kjesta

kjesta

August 5 2022, 23:32:43 UTC 2 days ago

I'm headed to bed but https://www.nospec.com lays it out simply. No, they're not specifically asking designers, but they're well aware of their creative fanbase and like Billie Eilish, Marina, Fortnite and others it is just becoming a sad trend to save money by getting fans to do this stuff, and it does sadly have far reaching implications for professional artists, whether they 'just don't do it' or not.
kaiserschmarrn

kaiserschmarrn

August 5 2022, 23:39:23 UTC 2 days ago

Maybe you'd have felt differently about Santa if he had asked everyone to submit a Christmas tree drawing with only the best one getting a chance at receiving a present while Santa would then use that drawing as an ad for his Nordic logistics center lmao

Seriously though, the issue isn't what fans want, it's what the band does. Out of their own volition. They could commission unique tour posters and pay for it appropriately (which would be way more than the equivalent of 2 concert tickets). They could do that and still do something nice for the fans. But instead they're conflating the two because it benefits them at little to no cost. Maybe it doesn't bother some fans who can't see beyond their own nose but it's nagl to be making choices like that when you're a millionaire. What's next, asking fans to build you a swimming pool and the one who does the best job gets some concert tickets? No, we wouldn't expect that because we recognize that that would be an actual job for an actual professional with actual compensation. Well so is actual poster design. Which goes beyond doodling. People not knowing or not caring about their worth doesn't mean they can't be exploited. In fact, that's exactly how that happens.
littlehayzay

littlehayzay

August 5 2022, 22:33:51 UTC 3 days ago

Ughhhhh lol this is so garbage I fucking hate these contests. I’m glad I mentor design students lol bc I just like say how terrible this shit and NFTs are lol trying to make it stick. Don’t waste your time on that shit, make stuff for yourself, it’s better for you in the long run
muffintiem

muffintiem

August 5 2022, 23:16:09 UTC 2 days ago

omggg I saw that on the newest Photoshop there's an option in the File -> Export menu to "Learn how to export for NFTs" 💀
littlehayzay

littlehayzay

August 5 2022, 23:18:35 UTC 2 days ago

YES. I was fuming. I don’t pay for it, my job does lol, for my art I use Clip Studio Paint, but I saw that and was absolutely boiling.
burnbook31

burnbook31

August 6 2022, 10:33:09 UTC 2 days ago

omg yes, I saw that too! cringe at the sight of it
blazingeternity

blazingeternity

August 5 2022, 22:40:11 UTC 2 days ago

Even if the chosen artists receive money, there will be countless fan artists putting in hours to create work designed explicitly for the commercial purpose [...]

I agree with the critique & outrage, but this particular argument doesn't sit right with me. After all, that's how competitions work. The winner gets the big prize, and the rest put all their effort in more or less in vain — and yes, often enough you can't or are not allowed to use your failed submission for another purpose.
However, the chosen artist should be appropriately paid for their work, fan or not. Especially considering how Florence + The Machine aren't starving underground artists and should step and be a good example of how creative work needs to be compensated in a society that notoriously undervalues art.
just444

just444

August 5 2022, 22:40:59 UTC 2 days ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/ChoosingBeggars/
destructo_ray

destructo_ray

August 5 2022, 22:42:13 UTC 2 days ago

People will always do it, though... Too many artists are hoping that it'll be their big opportunity that will open the doors for them.

But I'm glad the majority of people disapprove of that kind of bullshit now and are willing to drag whoever tries to take advantage.
kjesta

kjesta

August 5 2022, 22:46:36 UTC 2 days ago

Oh I'm under no illusion they won't find plenty of ppl to enter. You can always find some student trying to get their foot in the door. I've myself had to learn painfully that if you start off by giving your art away for free though, ppl will expect it to be worth exactly that: no money. A hard lesson that I was too young to understand immediately.
nermal_kat

nermal_kat

August 5 2022, 22:43:59 UTC 2 days ago

I would gladly submit some designs for free tickets. But do they have to be tickets to her show, or can I pick a concert I actually want to see?
thinkweism

thinkweism

August 5 2022, 22:45:49 UTC 2 days ago

Lmao the difference in the response to this to Florence v. Marina awhile back.

Just fucking pay people for their creative labor. I’m not in the mood for people saying “oh, they’re fans and it’s an honor” fucking bullshit.
kjesta

kjesta

August 5 2022, 22:48:04 UTC 2 days ago

What was the response to Marina? I'm assuming you're talking about the zine or whatever it was called. Wasn't a fan of that either but my belief in Marina's artistic integrity these days is nil anyway lol.
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