ONTD

11:14 pm - 02/15/2013

Dan Harmon Rants About the ‘Garbage’ That Is TV

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Grantland followed Dan Harmon on some dates of his recent Harmontown live podcast tour. In between tidbits like that the second season of Community was "brought to you by Adderall" and that Harmon once put a Sharpie up his butt to see if he was into that sort of thing, is one good old-fashioned diatribe. When asked why 30 Rock was able to stay on the air as a poorly rated yet very smart show, Harmon goes off, espousing a very "everything is bullshit" message. He calls all TV, regardless of quality, "a bunch of goddamn baby food made out of corn syrup." Read the whole thing below. Don't worry, it has a George Orwell reference.

"When 30 Rock lands on the cover of Rolling Stone, when any television show is lionized for being "smart," someone's laughing all the way to the bank — some company, it used to be General Electric, but now it's Comcast. That there's a difference between any of this shit is the greatest joke that television ever told. I mean, as the creator of Community, I'm telling you: It's all garbage. And the idea that my garbage, y'know, needed a better time slot or deserved an Emmy or didn't deserve an Emmy, the idea that it was better or worse than 30 Rock or Arrested Development or Freaks and Geeks and all that shit — you only have to take a couple steps back before you realize that you're looking at a bunch of goddamn baby food made out of corn syrup. It's just a big blob of fucking garbage. The medium is dispensed to people who can't feed back, can't change it, who only get it in 20-minute chunks interrupted by commercials, and you're watching either really well-written jokes or so-so-written jokes or terribly written jokes, but you're just watching jokes written by a bunch of people who all have one thing in common: They're not allowed to say whatever they're thinking! They're not allowed. You're definitely not getting truth; you're getting lies.

Now, so why does this concept of "meta" and smart TV and snobbery — like, why does it offend people? Why can't you just say, "I don't like that show; it's not my cup of tea. I prefer this show"? Because we're programmed to hate ourselves for being stupid. We are told that the goal is to be smart, and to differentiate between good and bad, and then we are told, from left to right, what is good and bad, and then we are told to go at each other's throats. And that's why, if a television show like Community has an element to it where someone says, "This feels a lot like a television show," you can't just ignore that — you can't just take it or leave it. You have to violently — like, it's a political issue. It's like, you gotta fight it; you gotta hate it.

If you're a critic, you have to write your 90-page review of it that takes longer to read than it does to watch the episode, prattling endlessly in this pseudo-intellectual way, filling the next tier down's head with this language that they can use to talk about the show over coffee. The conversation we're not having is: "Hey, there's 250 million of us watching an average of six hours a day of a one-way transmission that only ever tells us that we are all animals and that we should buy Cottonell." That's the one conversation no one is having, not a single one of us. Well, I mean, there are a couple people having it; they're on street corners covered in tattoos with their dicks pierced, and they're holding signs saying, "Honk if you want to burn down the White House." Those people are not marketable; we put them in the same drawer as homeless people; they're weird characters, putting flyers on your windshield and walking around barefoot and freaking out about the fact that this Orwellian nightmare is happening, and we're all inside having these debates about whether or not liking 30 Rock makes us smart or stupid."

Read the rest here.

source
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wonderwomanhero 16th-Feb-2013 03:52 am (UTC)
And yet you work in that field. Pot meet kettle.
minderbinder 16th-Feb-2013 04:07 am (UTC)
The writer was quick to point that out to him (which I loved).
violue 16th-Feb-2013 03:55 am (UTC)
He's a pretty embarrassing dude sometimes.
exlenne 16th-Feb-2013 03:56 am (UTC)
This sounds exactly like what I would expect someone with bitter grapes to say. Bitter, party of one.

Television is the best it has possibly ever been, sorry you lost your job and can't afford cable anymore bro. Don't cry about it.

No one watches commercials anymore since we got DVR, cable is KILLING it with shit like Homeland, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Walking Dead, etc. I can't take anyone who laments the state of television seriously.
saintssin 16th-Feb-2013 04:16 am (UTC)
i only hate on comedy these days. Cable is pretty damn superb.
exlenne 16th-Feb-2013 04:18 am (UTC)
That's valid since most sitcoms have refused to evolve. Cable pushing the boundaries while comedy seems to think "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

And people rewarding that strategy by making shit like The Big Bang Theory and Two And A Half Men the most watched shows doesn't help. Damnit, America.
soho 16th-Feb-2013 07:03 am (UTC)
There is always going to be mainstream shit that is the most popular/visible. Nothing new. There is a lot of comedy out there now though that you might have to look for, but worth it. And thanks to the internet it's easier to find, but there is always going to be shit TV.
im_chris_hansen 16th-Feb-2013 03:56 am (UTC)
im sure sharpie loves the endorsement

WHEN YOURE CURIOUS IF YOU LIKE THINGS UP THE BUTT: TRY SHARPIE!
wonderwomanhero 16th-Feb-2013 04:03 am (UTC)
Damnit sharpies have such a lingering smell
im_chris_hansen 16th-Feb-2013 04:08 am (UTC)
and they take awhile to wash off stray marks
winninghearts 16th-Feb-2013 03:56 am (UTC)
He seems very bitter. I mean, I get why he's bitter, but he's kind of just digging a bigger and bigger hole for himself. I guess if he doesn't really care how he comes off he can rant all he wants. Because he's coming off super angry and a little crazy and just not someone I think people would want to work with in the future. I guess he doesn't want to work in TV again? I get that probably his dream was ripped away and I guess he's disillusioned, but he is...not dealing with it well.

Edited at 2013-02-16 03:59 am (UTC)
exlenne 16th-Feb-2013 04:07 am (UTC)
I can see why his show was taken from him if this is how he behaves behind closed door tbqh
anydoppelganger 16th-Feb-2013 04:11 am (UTC)
same. he and chevy chase deserve each other.

I mean, I do appreciate everything he's done as a showrunner. He takes a lot of risks and he can be brilliant. But he's still an asshole.
minderbinder 16th-Feb-2013 04:16 am (UTC)
The thing is that he's already working in TV again. He's sold shows to CBS and Fox.
ms_mmelissa 16th-Feb-2013 03:58 am (UTC)
by a bunch of people who all have one thing in common: They're not allowed to say whatever they're thinking! They're not allowed. You're definitely not getting truth; you're getting lies."

So working in TV is basically like working anywhere else?
winninghearts 16th-Feb-2013 04:01 am (UTC)
ikr keeping your mouth shut sometimes is part of any job working with other humans ever

sorry you don't live in a special utopia where you can say or do anything you want without repercussions or other people butting in and giving their own input, Dan Harmon

Edited at 2013-02-16 04:01 am (UTC)
procedurals 16th-Feb-2013 08:11 am (UTC)
lol well said, i hate assholes who think they're entitled to be unfiltered assholes without consequences
minderbinder 16th-Feb-2013 04:05 am (UTC)
You should post the full quote OP, since it's def worth reading:

When 30 Rock lands on the cover of Rolling Stone, when any television show is lionized for being "smart," someone's laughing all the way to the bank — some company, it used to be General Electric, but now it's Comcast. That there's a difference between any of this shit is the greatest joke that television ever told. I mean, as the creator of Community, I'm telling you: It's all garbage. And the idea that my garbage, y'know, needed a better time slot or deserved an Emmy or didn't deserve an Emmy, the idea that it was better or worse than 30 Rock or Arrested Development or Freaks and Geeks and all that shit — you only have to take a couple steps back before you realize that you're looking at a bunch of goddamn baby food made out of corn syrup. It's just a big blob of fucking garbage. The medium is dispensed to people who can't feed back, can't change it, who only get it in 20-minute chunks interrupted by commercials, and you're watching either really well-written jokes or so-so-written jokes or terribly written jokes, but you're just watching jokes written by a bunch of people who all have one thing in common: They're not allowed to say whatever they're thinking! They're not allowed. You're definitely not getting truth; you're getting lies.

Now, so why does this concept of "meta" and smart TV and snobbery — like, why does it offend people? Why can't you just say, "I don't like that show; it's not my cup of tea. I prefer this show"? Because we're programmed to hate ourselves for being stupid. We are told that the goal is to be smart, and to differentiate between good and bad, and then we are told, from left to right, what is good and bad, and then we are told to go at each other's throats. And that's why, if a television show like Community has an element to it where someone says, "This feels a lot like a television show," you can't just ignore that — you can't just take it or leave it. You have to violently — like, it's a political issue. It's like, you gotta fight it; you gotta hate it.

If you're a critic, you have to write your 90-page review of it that takes longer to read than it does to watch the episode, prattling endlessly in this pseudo-intellectual way, filling the next tier down's head with this language that they can use to talk about the show over coffee. The conversation we're not having is: "Hey, there's 250 million of us watching an average of six hours a day of a one-way transmission that only ever tells us that we are all animals and that we should buy Cottonell." That's the one conversation no one is having, not a single one of us. Well, I mean, there are a couple people having it; they're on street corners covered in tattoos with their dicks pierced, and they're holding signs saying, "Honk if you want to burn down the White House." Those people are not marketable; we put them in the same drawer as homeless people; they're weird characters, putting flyers on your windshield and walking around barefoot and freaking out about the fact that this Orwellian nightmare is happening, and we're all inside having these debates about whether or not liking 30 Rock makes us smart or stupid.


And if you guys have the time, go read the full profile. It's insane. And the writer notes that Harmon is constantly drinking. And when he's not drinking he's looking for a drink.

Edited at 2013-02-16 04:06 am (UTC)
wickedground 16th-Feb-2013 04:10 am (UTC)
in the first podcast this year he actually said he tried not to drink for a week for his girlfriend or something. I don't remember if he actually made it through the two hours of not!drinking xD
jaimelannister 16th-Feb-2013 04:13 am (UTC)
done :)
anydoppelganger 16th-Feb-2013 04:08 am (UTC)
just finished reading the whole thing. definitely a bit crazytown bananapants.

"You'll learn that he's hopelessly devoted to the people who are hopelessly devoted to his work — that he reads comment threads, peruses the fan Tumblrs where his quotes and blog posts and Instagram pictures are clearinghoused, and sees no point in lying about it"

"Or, at least, he's admitted to reading long A.V. Club comment threads about his work and torturing himself over the negative ones."

And this is why I blame the AV Club for ruining Community. The show got too meta/up its own ass at the expense of being funny.
minderbinder 16th-Feb-2013 04:13 am (UTC)
If Harmon decides to actively read comment threads and get caught up in the negativity, then that's on him. If he allowed that negativity to filter into the show and ruin it, that's on him.
anydoppelganger 16th-Feb-2013 04:17 am (UTC)
oh no, I totally agree. I don't mean to make it sound like he's not responsible for the show's problems. I just wanted to take the opportunity to bitch about the AV Club's propensity toward pretentious bullshit circlejerks. It became impossible to take the reviews seriously when the crappiest episodes would B's and the commenters would talk about what a visionary Harmon was.
makemeyoung 16th-Feb-2013 04:10 am (UTC)
what a bitter betty
minderbinder 16th-Feb-2013 04:11 am (UTC)
I have this theory (and it's really just a theory since I have never seen any critic make note of this) that Harmon grew bitter about Community not getting any awards love partly because (aside from the obvious reason of not getting any awards love lol) the show films literally right next to Glee. Glee, the show that Harmon not only pokes fun at, but pretty actively hates on, and that got 19(!) Emmy noms its first year out of the gate. While Community got none. And, if you'll recall, Joel McHale was invited to read out the nominations that year. I honestly don't think Harmon has ever gotten over that.

Of course, that's just one possible issue of MANY issues he has with television, but it's one that I feel like is never pointed out.
jaimelannister 16th-Feb-2013 04:15 am (UTC)
Glee got NINETEEN Emmy noms? HOW?
minderbinder 16th-Feb-2013 04:17 am (UTC)
Idek. And I used to be really into the show during the first season, and I still don't know. It got more noms than any other show that year.
smegma 16th-Feb-2013 04:20 am (UTC)
The pilot was fantastic and the show didn't completely go to shit until halfway through the first season.
enema_recipe 16th-Feb-2013 05:49 am (UTC)
Glee actually had one of the best pilots I've ever seen. It slowly turned to crap in the first season and then remained a shitty pile of shit after.

Conversely, Parks & Rec had a terrible pilot and is one of the best comedies on TV right now.
redkay23 16th-Feb-2013 04:19 am (UTC)
I could never really enjoy the glee mocking on community because it seemed so weirdly mean-spirited. And I love mocking glee!

But yeah, ia, he seemed really pressed about not getting any emmy noms when lesser shows did. It was a major snub, but he needed to get over it.
croutonochrist 16th-Feb-2013 04:22 am (UTC)
I never knew Joel read the nominations that year. That is the ultimate LOL FUCK YOU to him and Community tbh.
saintssin 16th-Feb-2013 04:29 am (UTC)
He's definitely bitter that he hasn't received the praise he feels he deserves. As much as creative people sometimes say they don't need/want awards, most of us enjoy the praise.

And then getting kicked off your own show? ow.
hormoaning 16th-Feb-2013 04:37 am (UTC)
i get it but also why would he ever think community would get a nom? it obviously never was going to
poisoned_summer 16th-Feb-2013 04:18 am (UTC)
community has been shit since season 2 tbh
smegma 16th-Feb-2013 04:23 am (UTC)
Nobody wants your opinion, Derek! You can't even turn left!
anydoppelganger 16th-Feb-2013 04:26 am (UTC)
Community is just wildly inconsistent. I think S3 had some of the show's best eps but also its worst. The first season gets a lot of shit from fans because it was more of a traditional sitcom back then but that's precisely why it's my favorite: Greendale actually felt like a real (albeit wacky) place. The problem now is that it just feels more like a cartoon :|
youbeboy 16th-Feb-2013 04:53 am (UTC)
I agree. Season one is my favorite. I like season two too. It's season three that went downhill imo.
howlcosmiclove 16th-Feb-2013 05:43 am (UTC)
agreed
Love the first season, but the show's been on a roller coaster ever since.
fivil 16th-Feb-2013 03:28 pm (UTC)
Agreed. S1 starts out unimpressive, turns into a great sitcom, which then gets somewhat gimmicky but still good in S2 and goes off the rails in S3. I appreciate some S3 eps but some are just so out there with the cartooniness they're not even funny.
bighype 16th-Feb-2013 06:01 pm (UTC)
agreed
miakun 16th-Feb-2013 04:21 am (UTC)
I have such mixed feelings about this dude. On the one hand, there's something clearly missing from Community without him (the dialogue feels a little stilted maybe), but he's such an asshole. I'll never get over the shit he pulled on twitter re: the awful episode where he thought it'd be funny for Troy to pretend to have a sexual abuse in his past (but you know it was about Britta being ~damaged~ and downplaying that she probably HAD had a sexual abuse in her past).
croutonochrist 16th-Feb-2013 04:26 am (UTC)
Agreed. I think he's a genius writer and Community is a phenomenal show. And it definitely feels a little lost without him. But he is a monster douche....

And I wasn't really bothered by Troy's phony sexual abuse storyline. Yeah, it's disgusting to lie about such a thing, but I don't think the show was condoning it. It just showcased Troy's immaturity and juvenile need for attention/wanting to fit in. And it wasn't so much exploiting Britta's damage, as much as showing that she's attracted to damaged men because she hates herself.
miakun 16th-Feb-2013 04:29 am (UTC)
It was a pretty trigger episode and I think the way he got off scott-free and the focus was on Britta being into mean guys and not addressing the varied hints that something happened to her (which has been hinted at through the course of three seasons) was pretty jacked up.

I, however, was referring to his twitter response:

astrologee 16th-Feb-2013 04:41 am (UTC)
poor britta. she's my favourite.

(oblig: jeff/britta)
lovedforaday 16th-Feb-2013 04:22 am (UTC)
Guy who created an obnoxious show says obnoxious things. I'm shocked.
littlebones 16th-Feb-2013 04:23 am (UTC)
is he ok?
exlenne 16th-Feb-2013 04:26 am (UTC)
harmon are you okay

are you okay

are you okay harmon
jaimelannister 16th-Feb-2013 04:27 am (UTC)
IDTS
le_milkshake 16th-Feb-2013 04:28 am (UTC)
I love Community, but Dan Harmon is so obnoxiously unpleasant that I'm glad he got fired.
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