ONTD

6:09 pm - 02/11/2013

Gloria Steinem responds to Lena Dunham re: Rihanna

Piling on Rihanna Accomplishes Nothing

Rihanna is getting beaten up — again. This time, it's by women.

Recently, Lena Dunham, creator of the HBO hit series Girls, took aim, criticizing Rihanna on a WNYC show for not serving as a better role model to girls. Rihanna, in returning to her abuser, Chris Brown, was not the kind of feminist that Dunham thought she should be.

"I used to be really into Rihanna, that pop star, and then it's like — again, I don't want to ever throw stones from my glass house — but I follow her on Instagram and I just think about how many little girls beyond what I could even comprehend are obsessed with Rihanna," she said. "Like, you know, she left Barbados, she's had this amazing career, she's won a Grammy...She's talented. And then she gets back together with Chris Brown and posts a million pictures of them smoking marijuana together on a bed. And it cracks my heart in half in a way that makes me feel like I'm 95 years old."

The rant, from last month, wasn't Dunham's first. Early last year, when Rihanna and Brown released two songs together, Dunham tweeted, "Rihanna and Chris Brown's new duets make me want to go hide under Gloria Steinem's bed for 72 hours."

It might not be the best place for Dunham to hide. "Here's the view from under my bed," Gloria Steinem wrote to me in a recent email exchange. "Most women leaving violent relationships return at least once because their self-authority has been eviscerated and replaced with a partner's authority. Think Stockholm Syndrome. Rihanna probably needs support, not criticism, and her return could be a cause for teaching, not despair."


I certainly understand people's inclination to think that they know better, indeed, to feel like they are better than someone who is in an abusive relationship. Who in their right mind subjects themselves to repeated violence? But that is a short-sighted and actually not very smart response to what is actually going on with domestic abuse, and precisely the mentality that makes the survivor feel judged rather than understood.

Steinem further explained to me: "This is a microcosm of the frequent difference between the original battered women's centers that were or are run by survivors, and some of the current Family Violence Centers run by people with degrees. The survivors supported women in making their own decisions — because they themselves knew from experience. The second too often repeated the problem by telling women what to do one more time."

Dunham's comments hit two separate chords for me. The first was that it seemed odd and rather obtuse for Dunham to level criticism against Rihanna for not being a better feminist role model, when Dunham herself, also in a public position as role model to young women, excludes the very demographic — young black women — she implies Rihanna should better serve.

Much has been written about the absence of black or brown people on Dunham's wildly successful HBO show, and to a large extent the dissonance has come from black women, myself included, and many much younger than me. Why is Rihanna more obligated to be a better role model than Dunham is to represent a racially inclusive world, at least a racially aware feminist?

The other chord her comments struck was more personal.

I watched my sister return to abusive boyfriends for years, starting when we were teenagers. My sister is white, and I am black. I was adopted into a white family and grew up in rural New Hampshire. Our high school had a front hall, where the cool kids hung out, and a back hall, where the smokers, druggies, and general losers hung out. I was a front-hall kid; my sister was a back-hall kid. I went to great pains to disassociate myself from her. I considered her feathered hair, acid-wash jeans, and reeking of smoke a moral failure. Her willingness to be in an abusive relationship was an extension of that failure, in my teenage mind.

But while I continued to judge her, my parents continued to love her unconditionally. I believe it was their abiding support, in large part, that helped her to realize she was strong enough to leave her last abusive relationship, following the birth of her twin boys, more than 20 years ago.

This week, Tina Brown tweeted that Rihanna is "a big fat zero" as a role model for women. That's not very helpful to a woman in an abusive relationship, who more than likely doesn't need further prompting to feel badly about herself.

Several celebrity women and endless lady bloggers have weighed in on what Rihanna should and shouldn't do in regards to her relationship with Brown — from talk show host Wendy Williams to Jezebel and VH1, everyone seems to think they know what's best for Rihanna. The New York Post's Andrea Peyser wrote in her February 7 column that Rihanna "is a disgrace to women." And HuffPost blogger Sandy Weiner penned a recent blog called "Rihanna is Crazy in Love. Emphasis on Crazy?"

I recall now that my teenage judgment of my sister — telling her she was wasting her life — just pushed her away. She recoiled against my snooty, "cool kid" reasoning. Now I understand that letting a man hit her repeatedly had nothing to do with how smart she was or is — and she is very smart — but rather, was the result of trauma. My sister had been raped at 14. I knew about the rape, but I also didn't want to know; I was just 10 at the time. Her reactive rage and downward spiral into these violent relationships scared me.

Today, my sister and I are still at odds for various reasons — some of them, maybe all, stem from the front-hall, back-hall attitude — but I deeply regret having judged her so harshly during those years she was being physically abused, and have since become far more attuned to the experience of survivors.

Both Rihanna and Chris Brown come from backgrounds with violence and domestic abuse. Brown has spoken out publicly about the history of domestic violence in his family growing up, when he watched his stepfather continuously beat his mother. And Rihanna recently revealed in an exclusive interview with Oprah that she had forgiven her own violent father, who was abusive toward her mother. It is what they know. They need help in knowing something different — not a pile-on attack.


source
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jacomus 11th-Feb-2013 11:17 pm (UTC)
ontd's two fav things to fight about, settling in for this mess.

judgmental 11th-Feb-2013 11:19 pm (UTC)
looking at this bitch should be illegal smh
shipoffools22 11th-Feb-2013 11:28 pm (UTC)
she looks younger with long hair. looks amazing both ways though, long and short
dacrayzblaze1 12th-Feb-2013 06:05 am (UTC)
I prefer her with short hair, but *usually* her long weave is on point.
beatlesluv 11th-Feb-2013 11:45 pm (UTC)
stunnningggg
hera_bearrra 11th-Feb-2013 11:45 pm (UTC)
She is gorgeous
hot143chocolate 12th-Feb-2013 12:37 am (UTC)
beautiful
la_sikka 12th-Feb-2013 01:30 am (UTC)
glad to see the return to quality weave.
pilotesse 12th-Feb-2013 02:27 am (UTC)
she looked so good!
billsolomon 12th-Feb-2013 03:16 am (UTC)
hideous imo
crucified 11th-Feb-2013 11:18 pm (UTC)
oh no.
foreverxromance 11th-Feb-2013 11:18 pm (UTC)
shes a grown ass woman who is fully capable of making her own decisions. i don't necessary agree with whatever she's doing but srsly ppl need to move on
ritzyroxie 11th-Feb-2013 11:20 pm (UTC)
mte
brucelynn 11th-Feb-2013 11:22 pm (UTC)
I agree

I am so tired of hearing about this shit

bitch she ain't gonna listen to you
bienenkiste 11th-Feb-2013 11:24 pm (UTC)
ita.
licorrice 11th-Feb-2013 11:24 pm (UTC)
mfte.
ohprecioustime 11th-Feb-2013 11:26 pm (UTC)
this
frejabehaerich 11th-Feb-2013 11:28 pm (UTC)
i would agree but its obvious rihanna wants attention, some people like bad attention as well as positive attention. shes trying to build an image that shes a tough 'gangster' and she thrives on the bad press she gets from the relationship because she is a ~rebel~.
chandloski 11th-Feb-2013 11:52 pm (UTC)
Yeah, mte.
I was sympathetic towards her at first, but it's clear to me now that she's doing it for the attention. It adds to the rebellious, bad girl image she seems so desperate to put forth.
Ridiculous. I really hope that she can find it in her to grow up and leave him, and realize that she is a role model to millions, whether she wants to be or not.
karis_azura 12th-Feb-2013 12:25 am (UTC)
pretty much
totegay 11th-Feb-2013 11:30 pm (UTC)
YES.
lady_vader67 11th-Feb-2013 11:33 pm (UTC)
exactly!
manaconda 11th-Feb-2013 11:41 pm (UTC)
yeah
howlcosmiclove 11th-Feb-2013 11:43 pm (UTC)
ia
She made her choice.
beatlesluv 11th-Feb-2013 11:48 pm (UTC)
Yea that's how I feel now too.
goldengirl66 12th-Feb-2013 12:05 am (UTC)
agree
gerrycurls 12th-Feb-2013 12:18 am (UTC)
i feel this rn. after months and months of people telling rihanna that's its a bad idea, it just gets so tiresome and repetitive and obviously she doesn't care so...
bighype 12th-Feb-2013 12:56 am (UTC)
yup. people are pretending to care but it's all about being judgmental
stylista_11 12th-Feb-2013 01:00 am (UTC)
AGREED
pilotesse 12th-Feb-2013 02:28 am (UTC)
yeah ia
michelleantonia 12th-Feb-2013 10:28 am (UTC)
ITA
brucelynn 11th-Feb-2013 11:20 pm (UTC)
Oh lord ....

Photobucket
evalize 11th-Feb-2013 11:30 pm (UTC)
I about DIED when he came on and his facial expressions! "Oh I love this song..." and cue his face LOL
karis_azura 12th-Feb-2013 12:25 am (UTC)
ahahaha I grew up listening to this music but gotdamn, I love him even more now - him shaming Kim onstage was amazing.
plugmebaby 12th-Feb-2013 01:04 am (UTC)
wait what happened here?

/didnt watch grammys because i live under a rock in australia
beatlesluv 11th-Feb-2013 11:49 pm (UTC)
lmao he's amazing
ritzyroxie 11th-Feb-2013 11:20 pm (UTC)
Not a huge fan of Gloria Steinem, but she was on point here.

Lena needs to keep her entitled ass' views to her own ignorant self. She has nothing of value to add to society.
zeldafitzgerald 11th-Feb-2013 11:39 pm (UTC)
Agreed on all points.
tracygee 12th-Feb-2013 12:11 am (UTC)
Pretty sure that all people, including entitled asses, are permitted to speak freely about whatever they want.

Well, at least that's the case here in the United States.
ritzyroxie 12th-Feb-2013 12:19 am (UTC)
And I can speak freely and tell her idiot ass to shut up.

See how that works? tee hee
bas_saarebas 12th-Feb-2013 12:20 am (UTC)
omg free speech~~~~~~~~~~~~~
gerrycurls 12th-Feb-2013 12:19 am (UTC)
why not? no sarcasm, i'm genuinely curious.
lostinshalott 12th-Feb-2013 01:42 am (UTC)
exactly
run_atreyu 28th-Feb-2013 09:42 am (UTC)
Steinem didn't write the article, it's a very misleading title.
ialmrnt5 11th-Feb-2013 11:20 pm (UTC)
i read the whole report from the incident between them today for the first time(it was drudged up on reddit) & honestly felt sick, i only ever saw the photos, never read what happened

i can't imagine knowing him IRL or working on something with him after reading that and knowing what he did & not being totally disgusted and loosing all respect for him
wauwy 11th-Feb-2013 11:34 pm (UTC)
I would probably spit in his face every time I saw him. Just like as a reflex
stormer1_1 12th-Feb-2013 12:34 am (UTC)
~~it's always the woman's fault~~
unique_lilpixie 12th-Feb-2013 04:00 am (UTC)
The report was so awful. I'm pretty sure anyone who is still a fan of Chris Brown either didn't read it or is just a disgusting person.
chandyland11 11th-Feb-2013 11:20 pm (UTC)
God damn it ONTD I am A BUSY WOMAN, I ain't got enough time to argue in this many posts in one day
jeugd1 11th-Feb-2013 11:44 pm (UTC)
LMAO
coffeenmorphine 11th-Feb-2013 11:50 pm (UTC)
LOLOL!
hotel 12th-Feb-2013 12:26 am (UTC)
lol irl
eaglefan2011 11th-Feb-2013 11:21 pm (UTC)
ia with gloria
untxi 11th-Feb-2013 11:22 pm (UTC)
Celebrities are not role models.
Celebrities are not role models.
Celebrities are not role models.
Celebrities are not role models.
Celebrities are not role models.

The sooner everyone finally accepts this, the better. You too, Lena.
brucelynn 11th-Feb-2013 11:22 pm (UTC)
Word up !!!
mixswiss 11th-Feb-2013 11:23 pm (UTC)
i agree.
lillylilacs 11th-Feb-2013 11:25 pm (UTC)
ia
mrsdracula 11th-Feb-2013 11:27 pm (UTC)
mte

frejabehaerich 11th-Feb-2013 11:30 pm (UTC)
its not their job to be a role model but it feeds into our culture. just like everybody here talks and complains about rape culture in books/tv/movies, nobody is saying we should look up to these forms of entertainment for morals or whatever, but it becomes apart of our society. so its like people say twilight glorifies an emotionally abusive relationship, and rihanna displaying her relationship with an abuser in a positive light also glorifies it.
untxi 11th-Feb-2013 11:36 pm (UTC)
Yes, but Twilight is a fictional film/book. She's a real person, not a manifesto. She makes mistakes and fucks up just like everyone else. She's not obliged to behave a certain way just because her job puts her in the spotlight.
ialmrnt5 11th-Feb-2013 11:31 pm (UTC)
this is kinda stupid tho, have you ever been around young kids? they idolize certain pop stars, younger actors etc. so weather or not they want it young impressionable people look up to them & they don't have to respect that and try to be a positive influence but its the right thing to do
duckyduck92 11th-Feb-2013 11:32 pm (UTC)
I feel like people forget the Dianne Sawyer interview years ago. She did originally take on the role as role model.

"Even if Chris never hit me again, who is to say that their boyfriend won't?"

"Who's to say that they won't kill these girls? These are young girls, and I just didn't realize how much of an impact I had on these girls' lives until that happened. It was a wake-up call."
asth77 11th-Feb-2013 11:34 pm (UTC)
lol who are you to say so?
I don't get this logic.
No one cares about fans' & celebrities' opinions about them not being a role model.
They'll still be role models.
Now they choose to embrace it or not, that's their pbm, why should I blame those who judge them...
colorzplosion 11th-Feb-2013 11:46 pm (UTC)
in an ideal world, maybe. but celebs are celebs because they're idolized by people.
beatlesluv 11th-Feb-2013 11:52 pm (UTC)
MTE
beatlesluv 11th-Feb-2013 11:57 pm (UTC)
If only parents would sit the fuck down with their children and teach them this.
theactualworst 12th-Feb-2013 12:12 am (UTC)
Truth. If a celebrity is the main influence in your child's life you're fucking up.
bighype 12th-Feb-2013 12:59 am (UTC)
yup. they don't owe their life or their choices to anyone.
ronnie_luvs_u 11th-Feb-2013 11:22 pm (UTC)
I wish I could adblock Chris Brown's face.

Rihanna definitely needs support and I'm dreading the reactions of the public if he hits her again. People want her to be a role model for DV survivors yet what message are their own reactions sending to women in these situations? If you don't behave in the way that we prescribe you don't deserve support and sympathy? Even ontd commenters are guitly of this despite the constant reminder that Rihanna is trapped in an unfortunate cycle. People need to reflect on how their own comments and actions might act to silence and scare women who need to get out of dangerous situations.
tracygee 12th-Feb-2013 12:13 am (UTC)
Pretty sure when you've left the guy for THREE years, you've broken the cycle.

She got back into it again. I know it must be hard...but it's hard to feel sympathy for people making questionable decisions.
argyle_strikes 12th-Feb-2013 12:29 am (UTC)
"Pretty sure when you've left the guy for THREE years, you've broken the cycle."


tbh if you aren't educated about the cycle of abuse, you shouldn't be trying to correct people about it.
plugmebaby 12th-Feb-2013 01:13 am (UTC)
oop :/
licorrice 11th-Feb-2013 11:23 pm (UTC)
yes rihanna is an idiot for going out with Chris brown again but ffs it's her life she's a grown adult, she doesn't need be criticised for what she's doing especially about you dunham.
chandyland11 11th-Feb-2013 11:25 pm (UTC)
lmao

*criticizes someone for criticizing rihanna*

*calls rihanna an idiot in the same breath*
licorrice 11th-Feb-2013 11:26 pm (UTC)
oop i was going to edit.

I see my mistake.
crystalzelda 11th-Feb-2013 11:26 pm (UTC)
Not to mention all that criticism is aimed at Rihanna not, you know, her abuser. All you have is assholes going "oh well if she goes back to him it'll be her fault she gets hit and if she does I won't feel sorry". Really, now.
numbedtoe 11th-Feb-2013 11:23 pm (UTC)
oh lord another one?

Why do you hate America and freedom and apple pie and tom hanks? WHY?
stephantasm 11th-Feb-2013 11:24 pm (UTC)
My biggest problem with people who supposedly "care" about Rihanna, a victim of abuse, is to make really jaded jokes about her being abused again. You just sound like an asshole.
honey_fuggle 11th-Feb-2013 11:47 pm (UTC)
this comment is on point.
yurasama_love 11th-Feb-2013 11:54 pm (UTC)
That's what really gets me. When people are like, "well, she gon' get hit!"
It's not fucking funny. It's sad.
argyle_strikes 12th-Feb-2013 12:37 am (UTC)
it kills me when people would say they would be less sad/sympathetic if it happened again. like, listen to what you are saying...
hola_meg_a_cola 12th-Feb-2013 06:04 am (UTC)
mte
myxwill 11th-Feb-2013 11:24 pm (UTC)
LOLOLOLOL I just realized I've been calling her Lena Durham this whole time.
emmy0001 12th-Feb-2013 12:09 am (UTC)
this is making me laugh!
bas_saarebas 12th-Feb-2013 12:25 am (UTC)
I've been calling her Denham. idk tho, it's only Lena
crystalzelda 11th-Feb-2013 11:24 pm (UTC)
Haaa, finally getting to an interesting post on time. France is nice but it's ruining my internet wank posts.

Anywhoo, ia with the gist of this article. Attacking Rihanna for being in an abusive relationship is really nagl, and coming from Dunham it's beyond extra.

It's so gross how white feminists are building shrines to Dunham in their closets as they vilify women like Rihanna and Beyoncé. So bullshit.
yeahwell_britt 11th-Feb-2013 11:33 pm (UTC)
who are these people "building shrines to dunham"???
all the posts i see on her are critical of her. maybe im just not clicking on the other ones?
screwhim 11th-Feb-2013 11:38 pm (UTC)
Those people are in her head where most of her fantasies about how "they" and "people" act.
crystalzelda 11th-Feb-2013 11:38 pm (UTC)
There's a thousand and one (white) feminists that are always writing about how she's the voice of the generation, she's amazing and any criticism she gets is from da haterz who are mad at her sexual liberation or w/e. Not too long ago we had a post from Diablo Cody, I believe, that was basically all WAHHH LEAVE LENA DUNHAM ALONNNNEEEE. Cailtin Moran loves her, she wins a ton of awards - the love and the accolade is there. It's just not posted here very often.
rhapsodeeinblue 11th-Feb-2013 11:54 pm (UTC)
The industry~ plus a lot of people outside of ONTD love her. Which sucks tbh.
youbeboy 12th-Feb-2013 12:14 am (UTC)
The only reason I'm on twitter is to follow celebs and pretty much all of them kiss her ass. Retta is near stan levels.
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