here's my fucking two cents on this whole thing from start to finish:
1) the movie shouldn't have been made in the first place - end of story. the motherfuckers who made it know damn well that offensive material like this is likely to result in violent outbursts as a reaction - especially when you are insulting a religious figure that billions of people believe reverently in, some more fanatically than others (and some with less respect to what that leader taught - ie: those who commit violence as a reaction, instead of trying to educate peacefully & respectfully) - we are trying to fix what's been broken with west/middle east relations and these dumbfucks who made the movie and supported it have just set us back again and at the price of innocent lives (potentially hundreds as protests begin to occur beyond libya and egypt as awareness of this stupid fucking film spreads around and fundamentalists use this as a chance to get everyone all set off)
2) the people who made the movie are just as responsible for the deaths of the ambassador and those foreign service agents as the people who attacked them - terry jones and that israeli film-maker should be fucking ashamed of themselves for what they have done, and we as a nation should be disgusted that we haven't done anything to distort the image that those two ignorant bastards continue to purport. the islamic religion is not inherently violent, muslims are peaceful folk who want only to live and practice their religion without threats to their lives and their security just like everyone else and we should be respecting that RIGHT that they have because we'd want them to respect our rights as well
when the fuck, seriously, are people going to get over themselves - recognize we aren't all going to agree on some shit and just let people do as they see fit for themselves? i'm getting really sick and tired of having to hear about this shit all the time
the people who made the movie are just as responsible for the deaths of the ambassador and those foreign service agents as the people who attacked them
Why are you taking responsibility away from the murderers? They aren't rabid dogs that Bacile or whoever provoked; they're thinking human beings who made the conscious decision that being offended over a YouTube video was more important than people's lives.
the people who made the movie are just as responsible for the deaths of the ambassador and those foreign service agents as the people who attacked them
Ahhh, and once again Whoopi defending a scumbag. The scary part is that unlike most other contrarians on TV, I don't think she's trolling at all. She's a fucking maniac.
Elisabeth's comments didn't really annoy me. No insult justifies murder. Though she's clearly stating the obvious.
Anyway, with freedom of speech comes responsibility. People should THINK before making these films, as by now it's very obvious how some of the offended are going to react.
Freedom of speech also means you don't have to hide out in fear for your life because you said/did something bigoted and stupid. At least my interpretation.
The thing is, it's obvious that situations like this will have consequences. We don't have a great relationship with the middle east; it doesn't take much to get extremists to attack us.
Regardless, it's disgusting how far some are willing to go in the name of religion. Sad :/
In America, it means that the US government can't prosecute you for something you said, but they obviously can. You can't threaten the President, and the Supreme Court ruled that you can't yell 'fire' in a crowded room.
I am just going to post this here b/c people should know, if its mentioned in the videos, sorry for being redundant I didn't watch.
The filmmaker is likely not Israeli or Jewish. He is using an assumed name and put on a fake accent in the interview. There is no record of him existing in the industry he claims to work in. Its likely he is a coptic christian. He is pretending to be Israeli to further instigate all the shit that already exists in the Middle East btwn the Jews and Muslims.
The film makers are absolute fucking idiots for making this film which is a blatant attempt to stir up controversy (even though I literally think religion is the bane of humanity, this was just dumb). But the reaction to this is absolutely fucking insane and does not warrant the killing of innocent people (and nor does it warrant placing the guilt of murder onto the film makers...)
well while I agree they don't hold as much as responsability as who ultimately committed the crime it was like light a cigarrete inside a gas container lbr.
Yeah I haven't watched the film but I'm sure it verges on hate speech which I hope they face sanction for, but at the same time I can't help thinking how fucking low humanity is that four people are murdered because their imaginary man in the sky was mocked.
A friend posted this on facebook, though she didn't give a source. It's interesting to see it from someone in Libya.
Libyan poet Khaled Mattawa writes: "My family and I are horrified at the death of the American ambassador who died in the U.S. consulate in Benghazi. We are safe in Tripoli. Our family in Benghazi as well as our friends are all well. Today, we plan to attend a demonstration to protest the attack on the American embassy, and the virulent and idiotic response to a worthless film.
The article below provides some background about the film and its producer, Sam Bacile, who knew that his film was going to be extremely controversial. Bacile may have also known that the film would jeopardize Obama's presidential campaign. So the film reeks of intra-U.S. politics. Lax security at U.S. embassies will get big play in the current presidential campaign.
In Libya, the radical goons who attacked the consulate may have done so to avenge a drone attack on one of their camps last spring, which no one here opposed. The film fell into their laps as a way to get back into the political game having lost badly at the elections and sent packing when they barged into Benghazi to implement Sharia.
Salafist/Al-Qaeda types have been increasing their use of violence to subvert the outcome of the democratic elections which have shown that the Libyan population is generally moderate and wants to establish a modern civil state no a religious one. A largely discredited conservative cleric, Ismael Al-Salabi, trying to ride the furor to regain favor, stated that Libyans and other Muslims were provoked by this film. He's not the only politician in Libya and the U.S. who will use this incident to his political purposes.
On both political fronts, and elsewhere, there will be a great deal of devilish spin that relies on seemingly insurmountable ignorance. Large segments of the Libyan population have no historical context in which to place this film, no idea that anti-Islam rhetoric goes back to the beginning of their religion, and no idea that this insipid film in no way represents the American public.
Romney's people will use the imagery in their campaign and the footage may be used again when he, as President, authorizes or agrees to American/Israeli war on Iran. This whole episode is the kind of thing he's been praying for.
Speaking from within Libya, and aware that many are upset by the film, I see that most people feel that the attack on the consulate is a grave error that in no way represents their anger at the Muhammad film. The controversy over the film is divisive, and that's exactly what the Al-Qaeda types want.
Most of us fear is that things will indeed get worse before we rid of the Al-Qaeda/salafist scourge, which I am certain we will.
It is possible to express horror at both, the insipid made in a spirit of hatred to provoke hatred, and at the attack on the consulate whose personnel, and whose government, in way supports this film. This where most Libyans stand and I stand with them in their shock and sorrow."
it's the same masochism that leads me to the comments section on YouTube. Gots to patrol the idiots sometimes, i suppose.
Edited at 2012-09-12 10:08 pm (UTC)
Edited at 2012-09-12 09:09 pm (UTC)
1) the movie shouldn't have been made in the first place - end of story. the motherfuckers who made it know damn well that offensive material like this is likely to result in violent outbursts as a reaction - especially when you are insulting a religious figure that billions of people believe reverently in, some more fanatically than others (and some with less respect to what that leader taught - ie: those who commit violence as a reaction, instead of trying to educate peacefully & respectfully) - we are trying to fix what's been broken with west/middle east relations and these dumbfucks who made the movie and supported it have just set us back again and at the price of innocent lives (potentially hundreds as protests begin to occur beyond libya and egypt as awareness of this stupid fucking film spreads around and fundamentalists use this as a chance to get everyone all set off)
2) the people who made the movie are just as responsible for the deaths of the ambassador and those foreign service agents as the people who attacked them - terry jones and that israeli film-maker should be fucking ashamed of themselves for what they have done, and we as a nation should be disgusted that we haven't done anything to distort the image that those two ignorant bastards continue to purport. the islamic religion is not inherently violent, muslims are peaceful folk who want only to live and practice their religion without threats to their lives and their security just like everyone else and we should be respecting that RIGHT that they have because we'd want them to respect our rights as well
when the fuck, seriously, are people going to get over themselves - recognize we aren't all going to agree on some shit and just let people do as they see fit for themselves? i'm getting really sick and tired of having to hear about this shit all the time
I can't believe you're serious with this.
and the people who murdered are the responsible ones. Offending should not translate into physical violence
no.
Anyway, with freedom of speech comes responsibility. People should THINK before making these films, as by now it's very obvious how some of the offended are going to react.
but those film makers are still wrong for making that movie.
The thing is, it's obvious that situations like this will have consequences. We don't have a great relationship with the middle east; it doesn't take much to get extremists to attack us.
Regardless, it's disgusting how far some are willing to go in the name of religion. Sad :/
America has the most liberal speech laws.
The filmmaker is likely not Israeli or Jewish. He is using an assumed name and put on a fake accent in the interview. There is no record of him existing in the industry he claims to work in. Its likely he is a coptic christian. He is pretending to be Israeli to further instigate all the shit that already exists in the Middle East btwn the Jews and Muslims.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/se
http://www.theatlantic.com/internationa
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/1
Edited at 2012-09-12 09:42 pm (UTC)
Didn't watch the rest though
i just heard whoopi comparing him to jesus.
ah well, jesus, mohammed, moses. all different sides of the same..3 sided coin? lol
get your facts straight, television lady!
Libyan poet Khaled Mattawa writes:
"My family and I are horrified at the death of the American ambassador who died in the U.S. consulate in Benghazi. We are safe in Tripoli. Our family in Benghazi as well as our friends are all well. Today, we plan to attend a demonstration to protest the attack on the American embassy, and the virulent and idiotic response to a worthless film.
The article below provides some background about the film and its producer, Sam Bacile, who knew that his film was going to be extremely controversial. Bacile may have also known that the film would jeopardize Obama's presidential campaign. So the film reeks of intra-U.S. politics. Lax security at U.S. embassies will get big play in the current presidential campaign.
In Libya, the radical goons who attacked the consulate may have done so to avenge a drone attack on one of their camps last spring, which no one here opposed. The film fell into their laps as a way to get back into the political game having lost badly at the elections and sent packing when they barged into Benghazi to implement Sharia.
Salafist/Al-Qaeda types have been increasing their use of violence to subvert the outcome of the democratic elections which have shown that the Libyan population is generally moderate and wants to establish a modern civil state no a religious one. A largely discredited conservative cleric, Ismael Al-Salabi, trying to ride the furor to regain favor, stated that Libyans and other Muslims were provoked by this film. He's not the only politician in Libya and the U.S. who will use this incident to his political purposes.
On both political fronts, and elsewhere, there will be a great deal of devilish spin that relies on seemingly insurmountable ignorance. Large segments of the Libyan population have no historical context in which to place this film, no idea that anti-Islam rhetoric goes back to the beginning of their religion, and no idea that this insipid film in no way represents the American public.
Romney's people will use the imagery in their campaign and the footage may be used again when he, as President, authorizes or agrees to American/Israeli war on Iran. This whole episode is the kind of thing he's been praying for.
Speaking from within Libya, and aware that many are upset by the film, I see that most people feel that the attack on the consulate is a grave error that in no way represents their anger at the Muhammad film. The controversy over the film is divisive, and that's exactly what the Al-Qaeda types want.
Most of us fear is that things will indeed get worse before we rid of the Al-Qaeda/salafist scourge, which I am certain we will.
It is possible to express horror at both, the insipid made in a spirit of hatred to provoke hatred, and at the attack on the consulate whose personnel, and whose government, in way supports this film. This where most Libyans stand and I stand with them in their shock and sorrow."
i like that he described/included everything concisely