ONTD

9:52 pm - 07/15/2012

Comedian Actually Doesn't Defend Daniel Tosh's Comments



Editor's Note: By now, you've probably heard about the terrible (because it's all too common) incident that happened recently at the Hollywood Laugh Factory between comedian Daniel Tosh and a female audience member who was vocal about her displeasure with Tosh defending rape jokes in his stand-up act.

Of all the blog posts and news articles written about this recent flare-up of the age old comedy question so far, it's been Austin area comedian Curtis Luciani who offered up the most deceptively eloquent statement on the larger matter that we've seen yet. As a member of sketch comedy groups Your Terrific Neighbors and The Hustle Show, he's no stranger to flirting with that razor-thin line between hysterical and ostracizing. But he's also, clearly, a really smart dude who gets the meaning and use of satire.

Published with his permission, here's his response in its full, unapologetic glory (be advised: it contains dirty language) as it appeared on Facebook Wednesday.


Let's imagine a world in which women cut men's dicks off. Like, frequently. To the extent that one in five men has had his dick cut off by a woman or had a woman attempt to cut his dick off.

(I apologize immediately if it sounds like I'm being flip. I am not being flip. Imagine the pain and shame and humiliation of someone cutting your dick off. Imagine it in earnest.)

Sometimes it's a clear-cut case where a woman attacks you in the street, out of nowhere, and cuts your dick off. But more often it's a situation where you actually know the woman, maybe you trust her, maybe you think everything's okay, and then one day she cuts your dick off.





Okay, now let's also say that the shame and guilt around having your dick cut off is so strong that many dick-cuttings go completely unreported. After all, someone is likely to raise the question of whether or not you were "asking for it" in one way or another. And if you do accuse a woman of cutting your dick off, you can expect to see people (quite naturally) rally to her defense and slander your character in response.

You can expect to see her friends... who are maybe also friends or yours... shrug their shoulders and say "Well, I don't know, it's complicated... it sounds like something was just happening between the two of them and maybe it got out of hand. I dunno. But I know that Sarah's not a bad gal. I know she would never, like, MALICIOUSLY cut a dude's dick off."

So, a shitty state of affairs for the men-folk of our imaginary world, yes?

Now imagine that in this world, something like 90 percent of professional performing comedians are women. And they've accepted that there are certain codes of behavior when it comes to comedy. Most people who "like comedy" generally accept the premise that there are no subject areas that cannot be somehow given a comic treatment, but it is also accepted, as a practical rule, that as the subject gets more troubling, more intense, more painful, a more skilled approach is necessary to find the humor in it.

However, it is also accepted that people are people and they are going to have authentic responses to things. It is accepted, for example, that you probably should not go in front of an audience that contains several black people and start tossing around the n-word unless you have an EXCEPTIONALLY sophisticated and road-tested routine built around it, one that you are confident will overcome the very significant risk you are incurring. If a comedian did this and did NOT overcome the risk, no one would be shocked if the audience shouted her down and stormed her out of the club, nor would anyone be particularly eager to defend her.

HOWEVER, there's this ONE thing. Many of the comediennes of this world have this ONE little sticking point. One little thing. It just IRKS the hell out of them that they can't seem to make jokes about cutting dicks off without some whiny pussy male in the audience throwing a shit fit about it!

Now, sure, there's a few comediennes at the top of their game who can pull it off. Their approach is skillful, and they somehow make the joke without minimalizing or trivializing the actual pain involved. But then the rest of them think, "Well, geez, if they can do it, why can't I? It's not fair, darn it! I should be able to work with the same material as someone much better than me and get the same result and not make anyone hate me or say mean things about me on the Internet! Waaaaahhh!

"I mean, after all, do that many men REALLY get their dicks cut off? I've heard the statistic, but that's probably overblown. And I bet a lot of them were asking for it. I mean, in any case, there's a lot of grey area. I know one thing for sure: none of the men I KNOW has ever had his dick cut off. If they had, they would tell me, right? I mean, right? And besides, there's a principle at stake here. I AM AN ARTIST. I should be able to say whatever shitty thing I want, and people should be able to suppress their authentic response to it!

"And if they DON'T suppress their authentic response to it: why, that's censorship or something! Besides, I know this and that example of a time where a comedienne I know made a joke that wasn't even ABOUT dick-cutting, and some whiny pussy dude got upset about it anyway! It's just these humorless masculinists! They can't take a joke about anything anyway. So, since I can think of examples where a comedienne was unfairly criticized by someone without a sense of humor, this must be what happens in all cases."

Okay, I think we see what I'm getting at here.

Fine, yes, WHAT-THE-FUCK-EVER. I will concede the following points that every comedian wants us all so badly to concede:

1) Theoretically, there is no subject that should be considered off-limits for humor.

2) There will always be some example where a performer of extremely high skill can take something very painful and make it work.

But...

Here's what YOU need to understand:

1) Rape is way, WAY more prevalent than you seem to think it is. Are there more than five women in your audience? You do the math, and then you run the little fantasy scenario that I just put together in your head, and you tell me how it feels.

2) I ain't buying any of that "If I can make jokes about genocide, why can't I make jokes about rape?" Horseshit, unless you made those genocide jokes during a gig at the Srebrenica Funny Bone. You got away with making a joke about genocide because your odds of having a holocaust survivor's kid in the audience were pretty fucking low.


And if you did happen to have one in the audience, and he heckled you, walked out, and wrote something nasty on the internet... would you be more likely to be a human being and say "Wow. I can understand why that person's authentic response to what I was doing was so emotional and negative. Maybe my genocide material just isn't good enough to justify the pain that it inflicts. Maybe I need more skill in order to pull this off." Or are you gonna be a lousy piece of shit and say, "Yeah, I apologize, I guess, IF YOU WERE OFFENDED."

Offended hasn't got anything to do with it, moron.

People have wounds, and those wounds are painful. That doesn't have shit to do with the weak concept of "taking offense." If someone talks about Texas being a shitty state, I might "take offense" at that. Fine, whatever. All of us who like comedy are generally in agreement with the idea that "taking offense" is lame, and a comedian should be willing to "offend" whenever he or she wants to.

But causing pain is quite a different fucking matter. Your job as a comedian is to take us through pain, transcend pain, transform pain. And if you don't get that, you are a fucking bully, and I've got zero time for bullies.

After all the super disappointing support from other comedians, I thought it was good to see someone actually speak out against everything. I'll definitely give his material a try.




SOURCE
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redqueenofevil 16th-Jul-2012 06:53 am (UTC)
Read this a few days ago. I didn't realize the poster of this was famous.
save_my_heart 16th-Jul-2012 07:25 am (UTC)
Does it even matter if he's famous? He's allowed to voice his opinion, famous or not., and I think he makes a pretty good argument.
redqueenofevil 16th-Jul-2012 10:22 am (UTC)
That's what I thought. The OP had me confused for a sec there.
lolzerz 16th-Jul-2012 07:04 am (UTC)
haha ikr? hes a comedian that makes a living off of being offensive, whyyy are we giving him so much attention for the shit he does everyday?
chimbleysweep 16th-Jul-2012 07:17 am (UTC)
Ummmmmmmmm that's the lowest form of humor. Nothing is easier than being offensive. I'd like a comedian to use their brains tbh.
yamcha 16th-Jul-2012 07:27 am (UTC)
Because being raunchy and offensive comedically does not have to involve something as tragic and scaring as rape, that's why.

I don't know how this is such a difficult concept for some people to grasp.
pettyscenes 16th-Jul-2012 07:05 am (UTC)
No, you.
yamcha 16th-Jul-2012 07:12 am (UTC)


Seriously.
myrasis 16th-Jul-2012 07:19 am (UTC)
no.
kimberwyn 16th-Jul-2012 07:21 am (UTC)
no, I hope people keep talking about it as long as this guy has a career.
saltireflower 16th-Jul-2012 07:47 am (UTC)
Nope.
odd_predicament 16th-Jul-2012 07:49 am (UTC)
I'm pretty much over Daniel Tosh; it didn't shock me that he made the jokes. But I think there should be a discussion on how many people are defending his comments, and why people shouldn't be lambasted for being genuinely hurt by the "jokes."

Daniel Tosh apologists will continue to think that singling out a woman and proposing she get raped is all fine in the name of comedy until they learn it's not. And I think this article tries to change a few minds.
sodoesrachael 16th-Jul-2012 09:51 am (UTC)
STOP.
antoinettemarie 16th-Jul-2012 10:03 am (UTC)
Free country. You can say what you want, but also expect the consequences of your words.
thecanuckian 16th-Jul-2012 02:35 pm (UTC)
i love you
dirtyknife 16th-Jul-2012 04:20 pm (UTC)
God, shut up already. Every time I see you post it's just a flaming pile of word vomit. And then you turn around and act like a victim because people are ~cyberbulling you. LMAO, you're a joke.
her_historia 16th-Jul-2012 04:44 pm (UTC)
If you're tired of these discussions why bother opening up this post? No one made you come here. That was all you.
highheartbeats 16th-Jul-2012 07:02 am (UTC)
maybe there should be a movement where women start cutting the dicks off rapists.
dropitlikepluto 16th-Jul-2012 07:32 am (UTC)
Yes please
solsty 16th-Jul-2012 09:44 am (UTC)
I could get behind that movement.
duckyduck92 16th-Jul-2012 09:55 am (UTC)
In ancient Athens, instead of jailing rapists, the rapists would be handed over to the women of the city. Pretty legit
carbons 16th-Jul-2012 11:35 am (UTC)
haha that's pretty awesome
talklikelions 16th-Jul-2012 12:55 pm (UTC)
can we make this a thing again

yeah let's make this a thing.
hola_meg_a_cola 16th-Jul-2012 01:07 pm (UTC)
I am down with this vigilante justice.
kuhori_rei 16th-Jul-2012 02:25 pm (UTC)
I could work with this.
ebenista 16th-Jul-2012 03:06 pm (UTC)
awesome
sodoesrachael 16th-Jul-2012 09:57 am (UTC)
yes plz
1337nik 16th-Jul-2012 04:45 pm (UTC)






arisma 16th-Jul-2012 05:26 pm (UTC)
Have you seen that anti-rape spiky trap device?
loverelapse 16th-Jul-2012 09:32 pm (UTC)
i support this
ohyoudo 16th-Jul-2012 11:46 pm (UTC)
Sign me up
traversant 17th-Jul-2012 05:15 am (UTC)
Yes. Yes please. Where do I sign up.
lolzerz 16th-Jul-2012 07:02 am (UTC)
i saw bo burnham last night in san diego, he randomly/quickly said "wouldnt it be funny if daniel tosh got raped by like 5 dudes?" and the audience went crazy
angela_stjoan 16th-Jul-2012 07:18 am (UTC)
that made me giggle
highheartbeats 16th-Jul-2012 07:27 am (UTC)
maybe the only funny rape joke?
silverbackhater 17th-Jul-2012 10:46 am (UTC)
havent you been reading this thread? NO RAPE JOKES ARE FUNNY LOL

Edited at 2012-07-17 10:47 am (UTC)
ashtraysoul 16th-Jul-2012 07:42 am (UTC)
yeah... still not funny
itskimbitches 16th-Jul-2012 09:05 am (UTC)
omg no. comedians are now suggesting somebody else get raped as a backlash to somebody suggesting about someone getting raped...is it really that hard not to joke about it?

bananasnrum 16th-Jul-2012 09:15 am (UTC)
wow sounds like an audience of morons.
sodoesrachael 16th-Jul-2012 09:58 am (UTC)
completely missing the point entirely, yay
smirk_dog 16th-Jul-2012 12:33 pm (UTC)
Oh, Bo. Baby, no.
mjspice 16th-Jul-2012 07:04 am (UTC)
More of this again.....
bluntbitchqueen 16th-Jul-2012 07:05 am (UTC)
A+
chy_tea 16th-Jul-2012 07:06 am (UTC)
also, can we not with the "imaginary world" scenarios for rape culture anymore? first it was something about bunny smashing (?) and now it's dick-cutting. i'm all for making topics relatable, but jfc, no more "imagine if..." metaphors.
pettyscenes 16th-Jul-2012 07:11 am (UTC)
Yeah, I think he was trying to come up with something that comes close to the horrific nature of rape, but it doesn't quite work. I agree with his overall point, though, particularly all his comments at the end of the article not related to his analogy.
chy_tea 16th-Jul-2012 07:41 am (UTC)
i think his points were valid, particularly the genocide one, but imo there is no analogy for the horrors of rape. like there's no a "imagine if" scenario for losing a child because i reckon almost everyone knows it's nightmarish. metaphors just seem like it's trivializing the issue.
mistyraven 16th-Jul-2012 07:17 am (UTC)
Idk, some guys just can't relate without putting themselves in that situation. I think that's why a lot of guys don't care about this stuff until they have a daughter, because they see their daughter as an extension of themselves, basically.

Or maybe not, idk, it's late
ponpiri 16th-Jul-2012 08:38 am (UTC)
I like the spirit of his argument, but I think he was dumbing it down for the men who never have to think of it. Honestly, I think a typical guy would read that and say "but we don't live in a world where that happens. Movin' on"
pettyscenes 16th-Jul-2012 07:08 am (UTC)
The dumb comments a couple of days ago: "Uggggghhhhhh @ this outrage. Everyone is going to forget about this anyway and nothing's going to change. This is what comedians do."

The new company line: "Ughhhhhhhhhhhhh, why are we still talking about this? Just get over it! This is what comedians do."
supehsunny 16th-Jul-2012 07:10 am (UTC)
smh at people who are rolling their eyes at this and telling people to get over it. someone, another comedian, has something wonderful, supportive and articulate to say about the topic and we just want to be done with it? what daniel tosh said was not okay, period and it's refreshing to see other comedians call him out on that.
blessedbell 16th-Jul-2012 07:12 am (UTC)
this. fuck that attitude. no one should ever "get over" the bullshit that this POS spouted.
angela_stjoan 16th-Jul-2012 07:20 am (UTC)
mte! thanks for putting it into words that make sense since it's late as fuq here and I would have been like, "i like this guys sentences!"
lovelylittle 16th-Jul-2012 11:07 am (UTC)
Haha for some reason that made me lol
jordoofus 16th-Jul-2012 07:23 am (UTC)
THISSSSSSS
arabian 16th-Jul-2012 07:25 am (UTC)
"Getting over it" means we're cool with it. So I for one will NEVER get over it because I will NEVER be cool with it.

(Totally off-topic and not even remotely serious enough for this topic, but damn, LOVE that movie, love that quote, one of the few movie lines I quote myself often)
mynamehere07 16th-Jul-2012 07:31 am (UTC)
This.

The odd thing is, is when someone defends Tosh, there is a lot of "get the torches and pitchforks." But when someone stands up and says "this whole thing is fucked up," the reaction is "Get over it already."
devotdsatellite 16th-Jul-2012 07:44 am (UTC)
plus what tosh said was just lazy comedy. there was no set up, no commentary, no sophist ication. its offensive to comedy in general. i have heard rape jokes that were funny and made really nuanced societal points. tosh, no.
talklikelions 16th-Jul-2012 12:56 pm (UTC)
it makes me think of how many people wrote off Chris Brown's issues. "oh he'll change" "oh it was a one time thing, get over it"

NO.
ectypes 16th-Jul-2012 02:44 pm (UTC)
seriously the issue of "rape" is finally on a national stage and we have an opportunity to tear this guy to pieces, and people want to sweep it under the rug? fuck no, i want to use this guy as an example in the hopes people WILL BE WATCHING.
agguss 16th-Jul-2012 05:02 pm (UTC)
yup, ia.
yamcha 16th-Jul-2012 07:13 am (UTC)
In b4 "get over it"

oh, wait

In b4 "this is his job, people!"

oh, wait

Edited at 2012-07-16 07:13 am (UTC)
treradical 16th-Jul-2012 07:15 am (UTC)
lmao
mistyraven 16th-Jul-2012 07:19 am (UTC)
Haha
hola_meg_a_cola 16th-Jul-2012 01:14 pm (UTC)
Yamcha, you sexy slut. You and Bulma were the original power couple <3
minalskare 16th-Jul-2012 03:45 pm (UTC)
lmao
dirtyknife 16th-Jul-2012 04:29 pm (UTC)
LOL
mistyraven 16th-Jul-2012 07:15 am (UTC)
It's sad that it warms my heart when I see a guy talk about stuff like this without making a complete idiot of himself.
violue 16th-Jul-2012 07:22 am (UTC)
ikr why does this have to be such a rare thing
bestcoast 16th-Jul-2012 07:42 am (UTC)
srsly
muzicnem 16th-Jul-2012 09:23 am (UTC)
ikr

Idek this dude or what he looks like but just reading this has already made me attracted to him.
mistyraven 16th-Jul-2012 09:13 pm (UTC)
I was trying to google him to see if he had any stand-up stuff because this has pretty much made me an instant fan
sodoesrachael 16th-Jul-2012 10:01 am (UTC)
ikr
vampireweekend 16th-Jul-2012 11:25 am (UTC)
mte :/
_clochette_ 16th-Jul-2012 11:56 am (UTC)
it always makes me wonder which woman in his life schooled him, tbh, so I can find & high-five her
la_petite_singe 16th-Jul-2012 02:18 pm (UTC)
Right? I was like "yay, it's a guy speaking out! ...Oh, wait, that's kind of the absolute least he can do."
advo 16th-Jul-2012 04:33 pm (UTC)
Yup, gives me faith that there might be some good guys after all
jjj 16th-Jul-2012 05:44 pm (UTC)
mte
its also attractive as fuck
starbucks_patch 17th-Jul-2012 12:01 am (UTC)
right? it immediately makes me want to date him or hug him or at least give him a fucking cookie...but then i think "you're giving him a cookie for being a decent human being?" and then i just want to cry because that's where we're at right now with this shit.
chimbleysweep 16th-Jul-2012 07:18 am (UTC)
Men need to start learning because I'm pretty sure this situation won't be so hypothetical in the near future.
iscrwdbert 16th-Jul-2012 07:21 am (UTC)
Lorena Bobbitt will be our queen when that happens.
dothecrunge 16th-Jul-2012 07:35 am (UTC)
lulubelle007 16th-Jul-2012 07:58 am (UTC)
haha, excellent
mingemonster 16th-Jul-2012 08:56 am (UTC)
LMAO
lusushi 16th-Jul-2012 09:01 am (UTC)
saving this gif
minalskare 16th-Jul-2012 03:46 pm (UTC)
lol irl
_marquis 16th-Jul-2012 07:40 am (UTC)
Lol ITA.


I would love to cut the dicks off if I could get away with it. I've encountered so many guys that tbh I don't think they deserve their penis.
muzicnem 16th-Jul-2012 09:24 am (UTC)
lolol I talk about pulling a Lorena Bobbit all the time on guys.
iscrwdbert 16th-Jul-2012 07:18 am (UTC)
Daniel Tosh isn't even funny to start with. Why Comedy Central gave him his own show is beyond me.
angela_stjoan 16th-Jul-2012 07:21 am (UTC)
idek. Cuz it's really that hard to make fun of youtube videos? Pretty much anyone could do that show.
silverbackhater 17th-Jul-2012 10:43 am (UTC)
you couldn't.
dobson_override 16th-Jul-2012 08:27 am (UTC)
THIS.
secura 16th-Jul-2012 09:09 am (UTC)
comedy central loves their shitty stand up comedians
look @ mind of mencia
modernelegance 16th-Jul-2012 12:50 pm (UTC)
I feel like he is the Chelsea Handler of CC....probably slept with someone to get the job.
yurasama_love 16th-Jul-2012 04:52 pm (UTC)
Right? I had a friend who thought he was hilarious and told me to watch Tosh.0 and it was awful.
fuk_q 16th-Jul-2012 07:23 am (UTC)
I hope he loses his job over this much like KKKramer.
rlmoonyk 16th-Jul-2012 07:24 am (UTC)
idk I was browsing comedy central the other night and they had a mini tosh.0 marathon
fuk_q 16th-Jul-2012 07:30 am (UTC)
wow...thats digusting
ponpiri 16th-Jul-2012 08:40 am (UTC)
I stopped watching Comedy Central when they stopped playing Kids In the Hall reruns
vee_bot 16th-Jul-2012 02:21 pm (UTC)
ew.
_clochette_ 16th-Jul-2012 11:57 am (UTC)
mel gibson told a woman he was going to make her suck his dick and then light her on fire and he's still working, so
minalskare 16th-Jul-2012 03:48 pm (UTC)
were this many comedians defending kramer? i can't recall.
blessedbell 16th-Jul-2012 07:28 am (UTC)
signed
awakejupiter 16th-Jul-2012 07:29 am (UTC)
Signed. Thanks for sharing.
chy_tea 16th-Jul-2012 07:49 am (UTC)
this is still going around?
violue 16th-Jul-2012 10:10 am (UTC)
No, what gave you that impression?
ivybgreenflower 16th-Jul-2012 08:19 am (UTC)
I really, really hope this works.
smirk_dog 16th-Jul-2012 12:39 pm (UTC)
Signed.
lanavis 16th-Jul-2012 02:35 pm (UTC)
Signed!
crump 16th-Jul-2012 10:45 pm (UTC)
signed
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