ONTD

8:51 am - 07/08/2012

Prehistoric Aggression: More Reasons Katie Holmes Was Smart to Avoid Scientology Marriage Counseling

In its print edition today, the New York Times is catching up to something we printed on Wednesday about the weirdness of Scientology's marriage counseling.

After news broke that Katie Holmes was divorcing Tom Cruise, various news outlets relied on Scientology PR to give the impression that, as ABC put it, "the church concentrates on improving couples' relationships through therapy." That sounded warm and fuzzy, but then we showed how Scientology's marriage counseling actually works by going right to the source: the actual counseling instructions laid down by church founder L. Ron Hubbard.

The Times today is publishing a story that hints at those instructions without, for some reason, quoting Hubbard and explaining that the ritual involves an auditor asking only two questions: in Katie Holmes' case, she would be asked, "What have you done to Tom?" and "What have you withheld from Tom?" repeatedly. For hours. At nearly $6,000 per 12.5-hour "intensive."

We can't imagine why the Times is leaving out that detail in what is otherwise a very good piece. But we're going to advance the story anyway: it turns out Scientology marriage counseling is weirder than even we let on!





We had assumed, based on what we were told about the Scientology movie, The Married Couple, that the subjects of this counseling would be interrogated until they gave up secrets like infidelity or stealing that had been going on in their relationship, um, you know, like here on this planet.

But we plum forgot that these are folks who believe that Scientology's "tech" allows them to investigate the experiences down their "whole track" of existence, which can be millions of years in their past!

As ex-Scientologist Patty Moher put it in our comments Friday: "I'm not surprised Scientology didn't use my marriage counseling data against me. After all, it would have been kind of weird for them to discuss my past life indiscretions where I killed my husband during an intergalactic battle! The delusion ran really deep."

We confirmed with an expert on Scientology technical processes, Claire Headley, that "whole track" experiences could definitely come up in the marriage counseling process -- even for a "pre-clear" like Katie Holmes. (Although Tom, as an OT VII, might have some interference from his body thetans, which is indicated in the policy under "OTs.")

Last night, I talked to Matt Plahuta, a Colorado resident, who went through Scientology marriage counseling about 20 years ago, when his wife at the time went whole track and turned the process into space opera.

He confirmed that the counseling consisted of being asked over and over, "What have you done to [spouse's name]?"

The point is to pry out of you secrets that you've been holding back.

"The auditor is supposed to keep the person focused in current time," he says. "The auditor in our case tried, but my wife kept going whole track."

She was describing something she had done to him in previous eons. "It really was her recollection of doing something to me back then," he says. "I was sitting there thinking, this is fucked."

Matt said he rarely saw Scientology's marriage counseling ever do anyone any good. "It didn't ever work. It didn't help our marriage...Scientology says they have the answers to everything. They promote how they can fix marriages. But it's not that great. Divorce is really common in Scientology," he says. Even with his wife going whole track, they eventually divorced.

Today he's married to someone else, Cindy Plahuta, who went through her own ordeal with Scientology marriage counseling.

I told her I was interested in what her sessions were like, but admitted that I felt like it might be an intrusion.

"In Scientology you have no private life," she said with a laugh. "You really don't. It's all out there." As one spouse and then another are asked to spill their secrets over and over again, anything they say is written down and recorded in their files.

"The first time I did it with my ex-husband, it was pretty fast, and I just wanted to get it over with," she says. "We got to do it under 'chaplain rates,' which was about $200. The second time it was excruciating. We paid the intensive rate -- $7,800 for 12.5 hours."



And for that money? "They ask you the same question, over and over," she says. "We got done with this back and forth thing, and then we got sent to the chaplain. [Scientology's version of a sort of small claims court.] It is so unbelievable what you have to do to get a divorce through the Church of Scientology. If you don't go through the church you're threatened with being declared a suppressive person," (Scientology's version of excommunication).

Cindy wanted nothing to do with that process, and filed for divorce in the courts instead. "I was kind of done. I didn't want to go to the church. I had gone to my parents house in the middle of Florida," she says. "But I started getting phone calls there. They had tracked me down...they left messages on my parents' phone. It got to the point that it was so embarrassing."

She relented, and agreed to go through Scientology's version of divorce. "I was a resident of California, where I should have got 50 percent of everything. Instead, I had to agree to what my husband wanted, and I got nothing. I did it just to get him to stop pushing and creating pressure on me through the church. It was two or three years of utter harassment."

After that experience, she met and married Matt, and then the two of them began having doubts about the church itself. After Cindy read the 2009 Tampa Bay Times expose, "The Truth Rundown," she began contacting the former church executives who had spoken out in it. Matt joined her in pulling away from the church more and more.

They paid a heavy price for that decision: each of them has grown daughters who disconnected with them and no longer have any contact with them because of their decision to leave the church.

"My son was disillusioned with Scientology for ten years," she says. "He's done."

But then she tried to talk to her daughter about pulling out. "I told her what I was seeing. I took her to lunch and told her what I'd been reading. She said, 'Mom, that's just unbelievable.' She went home to California, and the next day I had an e-mail from the DSA of Orange County," she says, referring to a local official there.

"She turned me in."


She gets emotional telling me the story, and I can understand why.

"I was so close to her, you have no idea. We look alike, we talk alike," Cindy says.

For a year, she says, the two of them were able to stay in touch as long as Cindy agreed not to say anything negative about the church. "OK, I can do that, I told her. We did that for a year. But then about a year ago, she told me that I needed to call the ethics officer at Flag," she says, referring to Scientology's spiritual headquarters in Clearwater, Florida. Cindy refused, and offered to talk about it when she flew to Orange County, California the next week to see her daughter perform in a ballet.

"The next day she e-mailed me, and said don't come. I haven't heard from her since."

Her daughter is 35.





___

Well, I know this piece started out as a lighthearted look at Scientology's bizarre marriage counseling, but it turned into yet another heartbreaking story of disconnection. It's funny how often that seems to happen.

OK, class, we'll rely on our illustrious commenting community to lighten the mood and come up with the sorts of whole track secrets Tom and Katie might have been keeping from each other until they underwent the penetrating process of infallible Hubbard tech. "What have you done to Tom, Katie? What have you withheld from Katie, Tom?"



Source http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/07/scientology_sun_21.php
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soapboxrhetoric 8th-Jul-2012 02:16 pm (UTC)
ashleyyyy 8th-Jul-2012 02:26 pm (UTC)
omg lmao!
gimmeachipwich 8th-Jul-2012 03:19 pm (UTC)
LOL
sarmoti 8th-Jul-2012 03:46 pm (UTC)
perfect first gif
quizblorg 8th-Jul-2012 04:34 pm (UTC)
Who's in your icon? He kind of looks like me.
soapboxrhetoric 8th-Jul-2012 04:39 pm (UTC)
ian from bbus this summer
infinite_drag 8th-Jul-2012 04:34 pm (UTC)
LOL
tvtaughtmehow 8th-Jul-2012 04:46 pm (UTC)
mte
wauwy 8th-Jul-2012 02:17 pm (UTC)
THE NEW YORK TIMES IS ON THEIR ASS NOW? FUCKING YES

andres01234 8th-Jul-2012 02:19 pm (UTC)


sprywonderdog 8th-Jul-2012 06:58 pm (UTC)
I know he would eventually betray me, but I wish Roger was real and my friend.
atomicdogmeat 8th-Jul-2012 02:22 pm (UTC)

ectypes 8th-Jul-2012 02:47 pm (UTC)
Doesn't it say that they left some important information out? Sounds more to me like they have infiltrators w/in the Times.
yousaidlog 8th-Jul-2012 03:26 pm (UTC)
Photobucket
mhfromnh 8th-Jul-2012 03:50 pm (UTC)
homer Pictures, Images and Photos
lulu_quality 8th-Jul-2012 04:30 pm (UTC)
On one hand, I'm like, "YASSS, NYT, WERQ THAT RILL JOURNALISM", but on the other hand, I'm like, "RUN GURL RUN". Honestly, all I want to see is a grand smackdown between Miscavige and a scrappy team of investigative reporters led by an emotional Nick Kristof. That is literally all I ask.

wristtattoos 8th-Jul-2012 04:49 pm (UTC)
IT EVOLVED
mortimer123 8th-Jul-2012 04:51 pm (UTC)
I look for this gif in every MI:3 thread now.


Funny, I just realized the kid's pacifier lights up. Coolness!
miss_gulch 8th-Jul-2012 04:56 pm (UTC)
omg this thread lol
arielcharming 8th-Jul-2012 07:11 pm (UTC)
I fucking love this community. You keep me young ontd
andres01234 YASSS I'M ON TIME FOR THIS8th-Jul-2012 02:17 pm (UTC)


Edited at 2012-07-08 02:18 pm (UTC)
therearewords Re: YASSS I'M ON TIME FOR THIS8th-Jul-2012 02:21 pm (UTC)
Are we human or are we dancer.
ink_smear Re: YASSS I'M ON TIME FOR THIS8th-Jul-2012 03:04 pm (UTC)
This comment filled me with immense joy. Thank you.
celtic_thistle Re: YASSS I'M ON TIME FOR THIS8th-Jul-2012 06:00 pm (UTC)
A+
stefan221 Re: YASSS I'M ON TIME FOR THIS8th-Jul-2012 09:59 pm (UTC)
flawless!
tundrabeast Re: YASSS I'M ON TIME FOR THIS9th-Jul-2012 11:55 pm (UTC)
All the lols xxx
lcacbc Re: YASSS I'M ON TIME FOR THIS8th-Jul-2012 02:33 pm (UTC)
This guy is amazing
wauwy Re: YASSS I'M ON TIME FOR THIS8th-Jul-2012 02:36 pm (UTC)
lol I want to know who he was rooting for.
ectypes Re: YASSS I'M ON TIME FOR THIS8th-Jul-2012 02:48 pm (UTC)
this guy is adorbs
truexillusions Re: YASSS I'M ON TIME FOR THIS8th-Jul-2012 04:58 pm (UTC)
WERK
quinnthevixen Re: YASSS I'M ON TIME FOR THIS8th-Jul-2012 10:20 pm (UTC)
So much WIN
chibi_hime 8th-Jul-2012 02:17 pm (UTC)
Such a freaking pyramid scheme.

Thousands and thousands of dollars to do what???

She didn't run away fast enough...




Edited at 2012-07-08 02:21 pm (UTC)
ninjacandy 8th-Jul-2012 02:48 pm (UTC)
Here for the Kingdom Hearts gif.
secret_weapon84 8th-Jul-2012 03:08 pm (UTC)
i'm so distracted by the running gif girls' one jiggling tit. there's only one. hypnotic.
therearewords 8th-Jul-2012 03:15 pm (UTC)
Now you pointed it out ..oh dear.
sarmoti 8th-Jul-2012 03:50 pm (UTC)
luvlorn 8th-Jul-2012 04:15 pm (UTC)
ikr? What a rip-off. I can enlighten y'all for like $3,000.
artemisbones94 9th-Jul-2012 05:19 am (UTC)
That Kingdom Hearts gif works kinda well with Kerli's Army of Love. xD
revelried 8th-Jul-2012 02:18 pm (UTC)
this is just too crazy to handle


I CANNOT
revelried 8th-Jul-2012 02:18 pm (UTC)
also I see you St Pete Times trying to rebrand yourself

IT WILL NEVER WORK
I WILL NEVER STOP CALLING YOU THE ST PETE TIMES
yay_4_me 8th-Jul-2012 03:04 pm (UTC)
Just as I'll never stop calling it The Ice Palace. St. Pete Times Forum, my ass.
porcelina_june 8th-Jul-2012 04:13 pm (UTC)
ha i was just saying the same thing to someone yesterday.
winegums 8th-Jul-2012 02:31 pm (UTC)
kinda like your icon, <3 Ruth
wauwy 8th-Jul-2012 02:19 pm (UTC)
After all, it would have been kind of weird for them to discuss my past life indiscretions where I killed my husband during an intergalactic battle!

I hope the Space Walrus was somehow involved
georgie_georgie 8th-Jul-2012 02:29 pm (UTC)
I didn't get that part. Does she really believe that or is it something she said to shorten the interrogation session?
wauwy 8th-Jul-2012 02:30 pm (UTC)
Probably a little of both? Brainwashing is weird.
demented_21 8th-Jul-2012 03:35 pm (UTC)
I think she believed it when she said it, but she has since come to realise she was being brainwashed/manipulated at the time.
kampfbaby 8th-Jul-2012 03:46 pm (UTC)
space walrus?
wristtattoos 8th-Jul-2012 04:51 pm (UTC)
ita
therearewords 8th-Jul-2012 02:20 pm (UTC)
$7,800 for 12.5 hours.

Going to be a CoS counselor, brb.
liferule91 8th-Jul-2012 02:22 pm (UTC)
lmfao
wauwy 8th-Jul-2012 02:25 pm (UTC)
I disagree with your username in this context
therearewords 8th-Jul-2012 02:28 pm (UTC)
There Are ALWAYS Words, Choverlordling!
ectypes 8th-Jul-2012 02:52 pm (UTC)
i guarantee the counselors don't see any of that money


not marriage counseling, but this is a really interesting look into some of their "counseling" services. starts at 3:00.
hoot 8th-Jul-2012 03:39 pm (UTC)
Just become a career coach. Much safer and more lucrative. My boss is a career coach on the side and makes $500 an hour doing that. D:
klutzy_girl 8th-Jul-2012 02:25 pm (UTC)
I will be in awe of Katie forever if she singlehandely manages to bring Scientology down. (Well, with a little help from the defectors, but still.)
teenageriot16 8th-Jul-2012 02:28 pm (UTC)
I see this mentioned a lot in MI:3 posts...

Do you really think this is something that can happen, genuinely? (I'm not trying to be snarky, but she's a relatively minor pawn in this game).
wauwy 8th-Jul-2012 02:32 pm (UTC)
Nah, SHE won't be able to do it per se, but the sudden investigative media frenzy + potential loss of Tom Cruise, their number 2 + potential arrest/downfall of Miscavage, who is evil incarnate, could damage them irrevocably.
klutzy_girl 8th-Jul-2012 02:33 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure, tbh, but I'm hoping it can happen.
alloveryou_safe 8th-Jul-2012 02:36 pm (UTC)
Non, but with the media shining a beacon of light on this subject (and not a good one either) more and more people will become aware of how the entire "religion" is corrupt/dangerous. So it's a big stepping stone to a future crumbling of CO$ and the L. Hubabababa shit
interrobamf 8th-Jul-2012 02:47 pm (UTC)
I honestly doubt it. The CoS has too much money and nothing will really happen unless the government clamps down on it. The most I think this will do is drive down recruitment.
swiirl 8th-Jul-2012 02:46 pm (UTC)
it might be possible. media coverage on all this tom/kate drama would tell alot of people about scientology and as a result they'd probably have a really really hard time recruiting people. unless of course, they trick you into joining them..

it could be a wake up call too for active scientologists. with all the stories from ex-members going around and stuff.
redleigh86 8th-Jul-2012 05:54 pm (UTC)
No, that'll be Miscavige who inadvertently brings it down, judging from the defection stories that keep appearing.
quinnthevixen 8th-Jul-2012 10:23 pm (UTC)
They just opened a new, glitzy church in my backyard (downtown Denver.) I would love to see them gone, but I have a feeling they will stay where they are for a long time.
it_has_been 8th-Jul-2012 02:26 pm (UTC)
I don't know whether to laugh at some of the shit in here because it's so goddamn fucking bizarre or cry because this shit actually happens to people and sometimes they don't escape it
helders 8th-Jul-2012 03:47 pm (UTC)
laugh through the tears, bb, laugh through the tears.
maidenhell 8th-Jul-2012 04:57 pm (UTC)
Yeah... I'm having a hard time comprehending how something like Scientology even exists (and is so high profile with celebs). I don't even know whether to believe all the shadier shit I'm starting to hear. I wouldn't put them past it, but how do they get away with it?
distant_lines 8th-Jul-2012 02:27 pm (UTC)
Hearing about these parents and children being separated is so horrible to me. I honestly cannot imagine a world where I had absolutely no relationship with my mother. I can't imagine how brainwashed these people have to be to willingly be cut off from their parents or children. Any organization that does that isn't a religion.
godramaclub 8th-Jul-2012 02:38 pm (UTC)
Same boo. My mother and I bicker obviously, but we're like best friends. I would have to become seriously messed up to decide to cut her out of my life given our current relationship.
swiirl 8th-Jul-2012 02:48 pm (UTC)
is there no american law against this ,jw?
ectypes 8th-Jul-2012 02:53 pm (UTC)
people are free to do what they please. if they want to cut their mother out, they can. scientology makes it look like a personal decision.
pink_dog 8th-Jul-2012 03:04 pm (UTC)
not really
custody laws here vary a lot and are often easy to ignore (in my experience/knowledge)
frklphace 8th-Jul-2012 03:41 pm (UTC)
unless the child is a minor, no. do as you will with your life.
americnxidiot 8th-Jul-2012 03:52 pm (UTC)
it's heartbreaking. i don't know how a person could ever willingly join a "church" that would force you to break contact with your family for something as trivial as badmouthing the organization (well i mean, i know... brainwashing. but still).
alloveryou_safe 8th-Jul-2012 02:27 pm (UTC)
STILL LIVING ON MI:3 POSTS

GIVE ME MORE
holypotatoes1 8th-Jul-2012 02:29 pm (UTC)
Just an FYI you guys, tonight Dateline has an entire show dedicated to Marriage Impossible 3! It's going to be fucking awesome.
wauwy 8th-Jul-2012 02:30 pm (UTC)
OMG WE SHOULD HAVE A VIEWING POST

IF JUST TO COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW BEHIND THEY ARE
helders 8th-Jul-2012 03:48 pm (UTC)
ia ia ia
noneformethanx 8th-Jul-2012 04:15 pm (UTC)
YESYESYESYESYESYES
lulu_quality 8th-Jul-2012 05:14 pm (UTC)
OMG YES
wristtattoos 8th-Jul-2012 05:26 pm (UTC)
ia lol
shanny_w 8th-Jul-2012 06:03 pm (UTC)
Perfect!
emmy0001 8th-Jul-2012 02:31 pm (UTC)
we need an ONTD watch post for that!
alloveryou_safe 8th-Jul-2012 02:33 pm (UTC)
OOH IM SO EXCITED

klutzy_girl 8th-Jul-2012 02:34 pm (UTC)
Ooh, I don't watch that show but I will tonight!
georgie_georgie 8th-Jul-2012 02:38 pm (UTC)
lets have a party viewing post.
yamashita_nana 8th-Jul-2012 02:39 pm (UTC)
we should totally have a watch post.
wauwy 8th-Jul-2012 02:41 pm (UTC)
okay this means that whatever MI3 news comes out during the day, someone needs to save a post to submit right before the episode airs.

Too bad I don't get dateline where I live
it_has_been 8th-Jul-2012 02:41 pm (UTC)
I DEMAND A VIEW POST
hay_nako 8th-Jul-2012 02:54 pm (UTC)
someone record it plz
ectypes 8th-Jul-2012 02:54 pm (UTC)
SHUT YO MOUF. SO EXCITED! TY FOR SHARING!!
banabee 8th-Jul-2012 02:59 pm (UTC)
yess I'm excited
pink_dog 8th-Jul-2012 03:05 pm (UTC)
OOOOOOOOOOOOHH! Let's have a viewing post!!! I will gather up a bunch of glow-stick gifs for the occasion!
gimmeachipwich 8th-Jul-2012 03:25 pm (UTC)
OMG nooo i have to work
hobnailedboots 8th-Jul-2012 03:31 pm (UTC)
omg yass
hoot 8th-Jul-2012 03:41 pm (UTC)
I know it's just going to be regurgitating things we already know but WE MUST HAVE A DISCUSSION POST FOR THAT.
helders 8th-Jul-2012 03:49 pm (UTC)
fml i've been sick and tonight is the first night i can go out w/ friends for ice cream and now i have to CUT IT SHORT TO WATCH THIS WITH ONTD AND MY MOM OMG
yousaidlog 8th-Jul-2012 04:02 pm (UTC)
omg I'm so watching this.
emofordino 8th-Jul-2012 04:13 pm (UTC)
ahhhhhh thank you for letting us know bb! i still don't have cable/internet right now (leeching wifi from someone in my neighborhood's unsecured wifi, oop) due to that damn super derecho, but NBC is one of the few channels that we are able to get from the digital antenna so YAS
fauxkaren 8th-Jul-2012 05:23 pm (UTC)
I AM SO THERE.
shanny_w 8th-Jul-2012 06:02 pm (UTC)
TY FOR THE INFO!! I will be watching while hugging my pillow tight.
lcacbc 8th-Jul-2012 02:30 pm (UTC)
They paid $7000 for hours of people asking them the same question?! What a load of morons.

'I killed my husband in a intergalactic battle!' I think these people are seeing the wrong sort of counsellors.
therearewords 8th-Jul-2012 03:06 pm (UTC)
Nah it's everyone else outside of the church that is wrong, not us!
godramaclub 8th-Jul-2012 02:30 pm (UTC)
ritaamber 8th-Jul-2012 04:48 pm (UTC)
this gif is so long and amazing!
godramaclub 8th-Jul-2012 04:53 pm (UTC)
ikr its one of my fav gifs of all time
winegums 8th-Jul-2012 02:31 pm (UTC)
godramaclub 8th-Jul-2012 02:39 pm (UTC)
ugh y so beautiful scarjo
ninjacandy 8th-Jul-2012 02:50 pm (UTC)
I don't know what I want to stare at: her beautiful face or her beautiful boobs.

Ughhhh, my inner pain.
winegums 8th-Jul-2012 02:54 pm (UTC)
lol it's like the Sophie's Choice of celebrity stuff to stare at.

But hey, bb! Long time no see, how've you been!
enid_keaner 8th-Jul-2012 03:39 pm (UTC)
Face, then boobs.
helders 8th-Jul-2012 03:49 pm (UTC)
ifkr
beoweasel 8th-Jul-2012 09:43 pm (UTC)
Why not both? -Goes cross-eyed-
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