ONTD

12:26 pm - 05/15/2012

Was Tim Burton ever a good director?



With a title like that, I'm sure to get a lot of hate for even suggesting such a notion.

But here's the thing: I loved Tim Burton. He was my absolute favorite director until around 2001. The worlds he created held my attention in a deeper way than other filmmaker's. The oddball and macabre design, along with the melancholy atmosphere, were unlike anything I had seen in movies. It was as fantastical in imagination as any blockbuster, and it felt more ethereal and personal than the "Hollywood" spectacle of a Spielberg or Zemeckis film. He introduced me to ideas of retro kitsch, spooky fringe and proudly holding onto timeless obsessions of your youth.

Burton is one of those early influences in my life that made me become a passionate movie lover. I can catch "Beetlejuice" or "Pee-wee's Big Adventure" at any moment on TV and immediately get sucked back into them. Batman, Jack Skellington, Martians that explode at the sound of Slim Whitman -- I was (and still am) a head-over-heels fanboy for those cinematic adventures. But now I look at those movies and hold them in high regard in spite of Tim Burton.

Tim Burton is not the filmmaker he used to be. The haunting emotional resonance of an early project like "Edward Scissorhands" does not exist in something like 2010's "Alice in Wonderland," or the recently released "Dark Shadows." (And if you think it does, please feel free to explain.) Since 2001, he's been more content playing the Hollywood game: trying to sell the public on pre-packaged, risk-free commercial entertainment that looks pretty, has distinct colors, and usually features Johnny Depp exhibiting some kind of quirk for ninety-minutes. These projects are the cinematic equivalent of cotton candy: They're not meant to be "deep" or "profound," nor are they trying to use the artform of movie-making to uncover any new truths about the human condition. Their sole purpose is to get you to pay twelve dollars to laugh and be distracted from your life. It's as interchangeable and disposable as "Battleship" or those Geico commercials with the excited pig.



How did Tim Burton become such a money-chasing hack? How could someone who was so unique become so manufactured? There are only two potential answers. One: he's much more cynical than his public persona lets on. He's a businessman, who is perfectly content selling his brand to the young (and young at heart) outcasts of society with a few token themes of "loneliness," and then wrapping it all in a line of merchandise ready for the new season at Hot Topic. He doesn't care if it's an old drawing, a trading card set, a '70s soap opera or a comic book; if it's "goth," then he wants to sell it to you. If that's the case, then he doesn't deserve the adulation that his fanbase has given him. The only other option is this: he was never that good to begin with.

When he was a young and hungry director, Burton wasn't given free rein to do whatever he wanted. He had to compromise with producers, writers, actors and scores of other people involved with a movie. Making a film is a collaborative process; no one person is responsible for a film's perfection, even on the greatest movies of all time. But now that he's "Tim Burton" -- and delivered billions on box-office profits -- he's not going to be reined in. He's surrounded by producers who sign blank checks for him to do his "Tim Burton" thing, then he casts his best friend and his girlfriend in his movie. He's so ensconced in his little bubble that he'll never hear "that's a bad idea" or be pushed to find new ways to entertain. Looking at the last decade of his work, it's clear that if he's this one-note, then all the past glory he's received needs to be given to other people.

So let's stop pretending and call it like it is: Tim Burton is a really good art designer. And that's it. He's great at coming up with visual graphics that translate to impressive costumes, makeup, scenery and special effects. That's an impressive skill set, but it doesn't make him a good director. "Directing" a film comes with a lot of storytelling responsibilities that go beyond making everything look cool. Burton's been handed a rare opportunity to tell stories to a global audience, and all he does is make toy commercials. Why do I have to pretend like he's anything better than that?

For further proof, let's take a look back at each of Burton's projects

"Pee-wee's Big Adventure"
This character (and movie) belongs to Paul Reubens (not to mention co-writers Phil Hartman and Michael Varhol). While Burton helped translate the Pee-wee persona to the big screen, this was a passion project for the film's star.

"Beetlejuice"
Michael McDowell was the one who brought the script to Burton; later Larry Wilson and Warren Skaaren developed the story further. The movie also sports an impressive cast, from Alec Baldwin to Winona Ryder to Jeffrey Jones. And the titular character might be the perfect demonstration of Michael Keaton's manic comedic timing.

"Batman"
Again, Burton had nothing to do with the story -- the script is again credited to Sam Hamm and Skaaren (plus several uncredited rewrites). And once more Keaton was spotlighted in a leading role, this time a risky departure from his usual character type. Plus, it starred Jack freakin' Nicholson, who had so much presence and control over his character, he could basically dictate the shooting schedule around Lakers games.

"Edward Scissorhands"
Edward started as a drawing from Burton's teenage years, and the task of creating an actual story was handed off to Caroline Thompson, a novelist who proved to be very adept at translating fairy tales to the big screen (her later credits include "Black Beauty," "The Secret Garden" and a TV version of "Snow White.") A young Johnny Depp signed on to take his first big acting risk, and he was surrounded by Oscar-winning talent like Dianne West and Alan Arkin, plus the legendary Vincent Price.

"Batman Returns"
Burton was not interested in directing the film, but only signed on to get "Scissorhands" greenlit. Again, he had nothing to do with the script, and the extravagant production was filled with effects by wizards like Stan Winston.

"The Nightmare Before Christmas"
This is a contentious one in some fan circles because Burton didn't even direct and he regularly receives credit like he does. "Nightmare" started as a three-page poem from the '80s; the movie script was developed by Caroline Thompson again and the musical portions came from long-time creative partner Danny Elfman. The whole affair was directed under the eye of Henry Selick, one of the most successful stop-motion animators in history.

"Ed Wood"
The genesis of this idea came from screenwriters Scott Alexander and Larry Karaszewski, who have gone on to pen biopics "The People vs. Larry Flynt" and "Man on the Moon." The project was originally going to be directed by "Heathers" director Michael Lehmann, but he had to drop out at the last minute due to scheduling conflicts. Burton took over and filmed the first draft, as is. The film was buoyed by performances from Depp, Bill Murray and an Oscar-winning turn from Martin Landau.

"Mars Attacks!"
The goal of this movie was to pay tribute to B-movies from decades past, and it accomplished it: "Mars" was the first commercial and critical disappointment of his career. But if it's not your aim to make a good movie, is it considered a failure?

"Sleepy Hollow"
The film started as a low-budget slasher from the writer of "Seven" and Kevin Yagher, a special effects artist looking to make his directorial debut. After Yagher lost the job due to creative differences, Burton signed on, having just removed himself from the infamous "Superman" debacle at Warner Bros.

"Planet of the Apes"
The poorly-reviewed and forgotten remake spent years in development hell before Burton signed on, amid criticism that he was a "hired gun" for 20th Century Fox.

"Big Fish"
Screenwriter John August adapted the unpublished novel "Big Fish: A Novel of Mythic Proportions" and spent years working with Steven Spielberg, who was planning on directing. Burton signed on after Spielberg had to drop out. And don't forget August's words were delivered by critically acclaimed actors like Albert Finney, Ewan McGregor and Jessica Lange.

"Charlie and the Chocolate Factory"
This second attempt at adapting Roald Dahl's book came from Dahl himself, who spent years trying to get a film version that was closer to his vision than the 1971 family classic. After many directors toyed with the idea of working on "Wonka," Burton signed on with August and Depp, adding their own new backstory to the candy-maker and receiving criticism for Depp's eccentric Michael Jackson-like performance.

"The Corpse Bride"
Burton shared co-directing credits with Mike Johnson, a stop-motion animator, and screenwriting credits again went to August and Caroline Thompson.

"Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street"
Burton replaced Sam Mendes, who was working directly with Broadway composer Stephen Sondheim. The film adaptation was scripted by the multi-time Oscar-nominated John Logan, while Sondheim remained as a creative consultant overseeing the production.

"Alice in Wonderland"
Burton signed a deal with Disney to make two 3D films; with Disney writer Linda Woolverton on board, Burton tackled "Alice" because he never felt an "emotional connection" to Lewis Carroll's story. His re-worked tale, that involved effects-laden battle scenes, received some of the worst reviews of his career.

"Dark Shadows"
For his latest effort, Burton hired Seth Grahame-Smith to pen the adaptation of a cult 70s soap opera. Prior to his first screenplay work, Grahame-Smith was famous for writing a "Spider-Man" handbook, "The Big Book of Porn" and the literary mash-ups "Pride and Prejudice and Zombies" and "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter," which combine one thing that was already successful with another thing that was already successful.


Poll #1840477
Open to: All, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 475

Was Tim Burton ever good?

View Answers
He's flawless -- always has been, always will!
39 (8.3%)
He's overrated -- all style, no substance!
144 (30.6%)
He used to be -- then he sold out and/or got lazy!
288 (61.1%)


Moviefone (poll questions are from there, too)

Image via Google
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fubukihakuryu 15th-May-2012 04:39 pm (UTC)
eh, the only two good movies he made were Big Fish and Edward Scissorhands. Otherwise he just copy and pastes his style onto every single movie he does.
bienenkiste 15th-May-2012 04:42 pm (UTC)
ed wood was pretty great though.
ilovestarburst 15th-May-2012 04:44 pm (UTC)
Definitely.
bees_beads 15th-May-2012 05:24 pm (UTC)
Definitely. I'm not a huge Tim Burton fan, but Ed Wood is one of my favorite movies.
lost_vegetation 15th-May-2012 07:05 pm (UTC)
Yeah Ed Wood is my favorite for sure
greyfilm 15th-May-2012 05:08 pm (UTC)
Beetlejuice!!!
masterofmystery 15th-May-2012 05:20 pm (UTC)
the first batman was amazing though, especially given how dark it was
iamglory 15th-May-2012 05:21 pm (UTC)
A Nightmare Before Christmas is fantastic.
aprilbegins 15th-May-2012 06:56 pm (UTC)
Edward Scissorhands is the only one I own

that made cry like an infant
t3pps 15th-May-2012 04:39 pm (UTC)
I'm not a fan of his oeuvre lately but ES and SH are still pretty good IMO.
fionaapple 15th-May-2012 04:40 pm (UTC)
Sleepy Hollow, Beetlejuice, and Nightmare before Christmas are a few of my favorite films. I don't think Burton has lost his charm, but has instead relegated himself to making what people want to see (Alice in Wonderland, Willy Wonka were all flashy and CGI etc) -- I think that if he kept his own original vision while directing instead of catering to the audience and made those films in the manner of Beetlejuice, Sleepy Hollow, etc (perfect dark comedies) then his films like AiW and Dark Shadows would have been a mlllion times better.
fionaapple Re: 15th-May-2012 04:41 pm (UTC)
Oh and Edward Scissorhands is up there, of course.
imnotasquirrel 15th-May-2012 04:48 pm (UTC)
But Nightmare Before Christmas can't be used to defend Burton's ability as a director because he didn't actually direct it.
fionaapple 15th-May-2012 04:51 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I actually didn't know that until I read the article. That's fascinating to me. I always thought he directed it.
silentxstrom Re: 15th-May-2012 05:03 pm (UTC)
ia, I would actually love to see him direct a film again without all of that CGI or 3D crap. Or Johnny Depp.
false_hate 15th-May-2012 04:40 pm (UTC)
I thought Sleepy Hollow was very well done.
bresson 15th-May-2012 04:42 pm (UTC)
I always forget that I like this movie, and that it was him..
16_bit_goddess 15th-May-2012 04:46 pm (UTC)
that movie is underrated as fuck.
transientv 15th-May-2012 04:54 pm (UTC)
Yep, I just watched it a month or two ago for the first time and really enjoyed it.
bellyroomfan 15th-May-2012 06:56 pm (UTC)
this! tbh, that, ed wood, and mars attacks are the only movies of his i truly wish to watch again. mainly because they don't fall into the patterns he's so obsessed with now.
hemsworth 15th-May-2012 09:39 pm (UTC)
sleepy hollow, beetlejuice and edward scissorhands are my top three all time favorite burton films. sleepy hollow is just so underrated
anna_drenxavier 16th-May-2012 09:14 pm (UTC)
I LOVE Sleepy Hollow. I was obsessed with it, back in the day.
trixielollipop 15th-May-2012 04:41 pm (UTC)
Beetlejuice, Edward Scissorhands and Mars Attacks! are p e r f e c t and Idegaf what this pressed writer says about it.
pushpoplove 15th-May-2012 04:42 pm (UTC)
PREACH
greyfilm 15th-May-2012 05:11 pm (UTC)
Love them.
soba_kasu 15th-May-2012 05:32 pm (UTC)
yes @ beetlejuice & Mars Attacks
manaconda 15th-May-2012 04:41 pm (UTC)
idk, if you put it like that, is anyone a good director?
vehiclesshockme 15th-May-2012 04:41 pm (UTC)
Seriously.
cowboyhayhay 15th-May-2012 04:43 pm (UTC)
Right?
ilovestarburst 15th-May-2012 04:45 pm (UTC)
Yes, I'm sure you could do this with a number of directors. Bit of a silly argument really!
snuffyqui45 15th-May-2012 04:48 pm (UTC)
Lol right?
nathanandbarry 15th-May-2012 06:58 pm (UTC)
this. The whole time I read this article I was like, "Does this person know what a director does?"
enema_recipe 15th-May-2012 07:35 pm (UTC)
Exactly. This article is basically saying that if someone else wrote your script and you had great actors in your film, you're not a good director. Not everyone is an auteur, and even great actors can churn out poor performances when they're not under good direction. I'm not sure if the writer of this article knows that much about the film-making process.
vehiclesshockme 15th-May-2012 04:41 pm (UTC)
Some of the arguments in this are really kind of ridiculous. "This movie had a good screenwriter! There were talented actors in this!" If a talented actor is given poor direction a performance will fall flat. If a brilliant script is in the hands of a hack it isn't going to work. Tim Burton has been getting far more misses than hits lately and I really think he'd do good with just a break and possibly just ease off on casting Helena and Johnny for a while. That being said, Edward Scissorhands is my #2 favorite movie of all time. Batman Returns is my favorite Batman movie. Big Fish is wonderful.

He's far from flawless but he was a good director.
transientv 15th-May-2012 04:46 pm (UTC)
agree 100%
hola_meg_a_cola 15th-May-2012 04:49 pm (UTC)
mte
poison_sin 15th-May-2012 05:02 pm (UTC)
mte!
evett 15th-May-2012 05:02 pm (UTC)
HBC's roles in his movies are never big enough to say you are sick of her being in his movies. Plus it doesn't hurt that she is a great actress.

But enough with Johnny Depp being the lead in almost everything.
vehiclesshockme 15th-May-2012 05:05 pm (UTC)
She had pretty big roles in Planet of the Apes, Corpse Bride, Sweeney Todd, and Alice in Wonderland. It's just the combination of the two of them together that I think needs a break.
bellyroomfan 15th-May-2012 06:58 pm (UTC)
tbh, i love HBC but he NEVER uses her for her strengths. her work away from him is a billion times better and i am honestly sick of her and johnny being cast in his movies. its lazy and they aren't right for every movie/part he puts them in.
yssim999 15th-May-2012 05:32 pm (UTC)
HBC fails as his muse. Lisa Marie was perfection. i miss her.
(i still love HBC though.)
sillycucumber 16th-May-2012 05:34 am (UTC)
But I think the point of the article is that he needs a lot of help to be brilliant. And I agree with that.
hermione_vader 16th-May-2012 08:00 pm (UTC)
THIS. Absolutely. A recent Cracked article pointed out that in recent years, both Burton and Depp have done their best work without each other, so they should ease up on their partnership. I know it's Cracked, but it's a good point.
crucified 15th-May-2012 04:41 pm (UTC)
Sweeney Todd is the last one of his that I really loved. I don't hate Alice in Wonderland, but it wasn't as good as I hoped it would be.
reginageorge 15th-May-2012 04:42 pm (UTC)
IA
actxappalledx 15th-May-2012 04:49 pm (UTC)
ia. I adore Sweeney Todd with every fiber of my being. I saw it 4x in theatres, lol
heart_iswild 15th-May-2012 05:39 pm (UTC)
samesies
takingthewalk 15th-May-2012 05:12 pm (UTC)
I think Sweeney Todd is a masterpiece.
quizblorg 15th-May-2012 05:19 pm (UTC)
One of my favourite movies of the last decade.
bees_beads 15th-May-2012 05:26 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I liked Sweeney Todd a lot - I think a lot of people were expecting it to be as good as the show, and obviously it wasn't but I still thought it was pretty solid. Can't say I'm with you on Alice, though - I thought it was complete garbage.
hermione_vader 16th-May-2012 08:01 pm (UTC)
Sweeney Todd is ridiculously underrated. I never got around to seeing Alice in Wonderland (and I guess I'm better for it?).
redsprings 15th-May-2012 04:41 pm (UTC)
Two words: Ed Wood.
bees_beads 15th-May-2012 05:28 pm (UTC)
This. And Bill Murray was amazing in that movie, even though he had a really small part. I still cackle whenever I see the baptism scene.

"How do you get all of your friends baptized to make a monster movie?"
"It's not a monster movie! It's a supernatural thriller!"
enema_recipe 15th-May-2012 07:37 pm (UTC)
I always lose it at the "Mexico was a disaster" part.
photogpab 15th-May-2012 05:40 pm (UTC)
i get so angry at people not giving "Ed Wood" the credit it deserves. Yes Edward Scissorhands is a classic, as are Batman and Beetlejuice, but sweet baby jesus, Ed Wood is his true masterpiece.
bresson 15th-May-2012 04:41 pm (UTC)
quick answer: no

beetlejuice is good fun but isn't a masterpiece of directing or anything
bresson 15th-May-2012 04:42 pm (UTC)
Sleepy Hollow wasn't bad though. Okay, maybe he was good but he hasn't been for 10 years +
vehiclesshockme 15th-May-2012 04:43 pm (UTC)
I think he could benefit from walking away for a while.
cigarettelover 15th-May-2012 04:42 pm (UTC)
I used to think that I could forgive him ANYTHING because of Big Fish, but goddamn he is making it difficult to like him nowadays.
cowboyhayhay 15th-May-2012 04:42 pm (UTC)
we did this, as consumers, by demanding more of Tim Burton's quirky weirdness, and now all we can talk about is how shitty he's become. No his work isn't as good as it used to be but it's because we gave him everything he wanted.

For the record, I did not hate dark shadows. There were some things, yes, that were over the top but I'm sorry, give me over-processed Burton over, say, Michael Bay any day. And I still think frankenweenie could be good
pushpoplove 15th-May-2012 04:42 pm (UTC)
He's hit or miss. Edward Scissorhands, Mars Attacks, Beetlejuice, Batman, Batman Returns, Big Fish, The Corpse Bride, Sleepy Hollow and Sweeney Todd are flawfree tho.

title or description
iamglory 15th-May-2012 05:28 pm (UTC)
The Corpse Bride is full of flaws!!!
heart_iswild 15th-May-2012 05:40 pm (UTC)
ia. i had no internet influence at the time i saw Corpse Bride and i thought it was terrible
sillycucumber 16th-May-2012 05:35 am (UTC)
Yeah, I actually felt like the weakest point of that movie was the plot. Like, it had none. He wanted to marry his wife. He didn't want to marry the corpse bride. I mean, there was no conflict at all.
hermione_vader 16th-May-2012 08:06 pm (UTC)
Corpse Bride was alright. Mildly amusing, but that's it.
spankmypirate 15th-May-2012 04:42 pm (UTC)
Oh come on, his latest films may have been disappointing but he's made some amazing films in the past.

I will defend and love Edward Scissorhands, the Batman films, Mars Attacks to the death. idgaf.

Lazy, pressed article by a writer who is cashing in on all the Dark Shadows backlash.
vehiclesshockme 15th-May-2012 04:45 pm (UTC)
I think the last amazing film he made was in 2003. I will defend Edward Scissorhands to no end as well but I don't know what he's been thinking lately. It's like he's trying too hard to cater to the Hot Topic crowd or something.
spankmypirate 15th-May-2012 04:48 pm (UTC)
Oh, IA with you there. The writer has a point in saying that he's gotten too comfortable with making a big name for himself and casting his friend and wife in almost everything. But to suggest that he was never really a good director, just an art designer... eh. Not sure I agree.
bubble_monkey9 15th-May-2012 04:49 pm (UTC)
Lazy, pressed article by a writer who is cashing in on all the Dark Shadows backlash.
mte.
cherrynorth 15th-May-2012 04:43 pm (UTC)
no matter how many shitty movies he makes, Sleepy Hollow, Edward Scissorhands, Beetlejuice, and Nightmare Before Christmas will always be on my list of favorites. Ed Wood and Mars Attacks! are on some slightly lower tier of greatness.
photogpab 15th-May-2012 05:42 pm (UTC)
Except "Ed Wood" is his best film and he did not direct "A Nightmare Before Christmas"
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