ONTD

10:08 am - 02/16/2012

Gov Christie will keep flags at half staff for Whitney

NJ gov strongly defends lowering flags for Houston


NEWARK, N.J. (AP) — Gov. Chris Christie has strongly defended his decision to have flags flown at half-staff Saturday for Whitney Houston despite receiving emails and other messages disparaging the singer and criticizing him.


The Republican governor said Wednesday that he rejects complaints that Houston "forfeited the good things that she did" because of her struggles with substance abuse.


"What I would say to everybody is there but for the grace of God go I," he said.


Christie ordered flags flown at half-staff at state government buildings Saturday, the day funeral services are held for Houston at the Newark church she sang at as a child.

Twitter was abuzz Wednesday with reaction to the decision by Christie, whose home is in Mendham, a wealthy town where Houston also had lived.


In online postings, there were two main arguments against the honor for the Grammy Award winner who died over the weekend in California at age 48: One was that it should be reserved for members of the military, first responders and elected officials. The other was that it's wrong to honor a drug addict.


Heather Clause, a Richmond, Va.-based blogger who writes about teen moms and was tweeting critical comments, said in a telephone interview that she was appalled by the planned flag-lowering.


"It's just such a bad example for people," said 23-year-old Clause. She said the decision was like saying if someone sings well, drug use doesn't matter and "you can still be an idol."


In upstate New York, Rebecca Eppelmann, a newspaper copy editor, also tweeted her disgust at the Houston honor, then discussed her views.


"It should be for major events," she said. "It's horrible that she passed away. It's not something that should warrant this."


Christie said he was not saying that Houston, who was born in Newark and was raised in nearby East Orange, is a role model. Instead, he said, Houston deserves the honor because of her huge cultural impact and as "a daughter of New Jersey."

"I am disturbed by people who believe that because her ultimate demise — and we don't know what is the cause of her death yet — but because of her history of substance abuse that somehow she's forfeited the good things that she did in her life," said the governor during a briefing in northern New Jersey. "I just reject that on a human level."


The cause of Houston's death at a Beverly Hills hotel has not been determined, and the results of toxicology tests are pending. Investigators found several bottles of prescription medication in the hotel room where she died Saturday, but authorities said they weren't an unusually large number.


The governor noted he has ordered flags flown at half-staff for all 31 fallen New Jersey soldiers and every fallen police officer during his time in office.


He also ordered flags lowered last year for Clarence Clemons, the saxophonist for Bruce Springsteen's E Street Band.


In Newark, residents were irritated to hear of criticism of the governor's decision to honor Houston, who acknowledged her drug abuse in interviews.


Resident Anna Simpson said she admires Christie for honoring Houston because "if it were Bruce Springsteen or Jon Bon Jovi, nobody would bat an eye."


Simpson was at New Hope Baptist Church Wednesday, where Houston's funeral will be held, to pay her respects on her way home from her airport job.


"She never forgot where she came from," Simpson said. "She was real. We would see her and be like, 'She's one of ours,' and she always made us proud, no matter what happened."

After Houston became famous she continued to make regular trips to the public school she attended in East Orange and to which her family has directed donations be sent in lieu of flowers.




source

makes some valid points.  if it was Bon Jovi or Springsteen and flags weren't at half-staff, most likely NJ would be in an uproar (fellow New jersey resident here, wutwut).  +1 for christie.


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lucciolaa 16th-Feb-2012 03:38 pm (UTC)
She said the decision was like saying if someone sings well, drug use doesn't matter and "you can still be an idol."

I can't believe people are going to write off her talent and contribution to the music industry and what a sincerely good person she was just because she met a tragic end. People still idolise Marilyn Monroe. I mean, really.
vehiclesshockme 16th-Feb-2012 03:43 pm (UTC)
But wasn't there backlash and scandal for a bit after Marilyn's death before she returned back to her idol status?
lucciolaa 16th-Feb-2012 03:44 pm (UTC)
Probably. idk I'm not 70 years old
maisontv 16th-Feb-2012 03:53 pm (UTC)
To use a more recent example, consider Michael Jackson. Despite the fact that he died from drug use and was pretty much convicted in the court of public opinion of being a child molester, nobody was going around saying that any of that negated the fact that he was a cultural icon.

I'm not saying we should completely ignore the bad things about someone when they die, but we shouldn't ignore the good things about them either.
yuyithemermaid 16th-Feb-2012 03:56 pm (UTC)
ikr... i feel like people who think in these terms should consider themselves lucky they've never known anyone who battled with addiction before. ugh
vehiclesshockme 16th-Feb-2012 03:42 pm (UTC)
I'm probably going to get a lot of crap for this but I'm going to say it anyway.

I love Whitney. I grew up with her music and especially as a kid I thought she was pretty much the most amazing person ever. I still love Whitney.

I don't think that the flag should be lowered.

I don't care that there had been drug use in her past or the circumstances of her death but the lowering of the flag, at least to me, is for major events (such as the Oklahoma City Bombing or 9/11), or the passing of military, law enforcement, firefighters, elected officials, etc. I have no doubt that people in New Jersey would be up in arms if the flag wasn't lowered for Springsteen or Bon Jovi but that doesn't mean that it should be.
lucciolaa 16th-Feb-2012 03:45 pm (UTC)
ita I don't think it's appropriate. I don't think it'd be appropriate for Springsteen or Bon Jovi either, tbh.
wits 16th-Feb-2012 03:45 pm (UTC)
I completely agree wIth you. I'm a huge Springsteen fan and I would fine it inappropriate if they lowered the flag.
hello_samm 16th-Feb-2012 03:45 pm (UTC)
omg so many people die every day in the iraq and da whole world gotta stop 4 whitney it's not rite
one_hoopy_frood 16th-Feb-2012 03:49 pm (UTC)
Someone I work with JUST reposted that on facebook this morning, I just thought not only is she annoying but she is also a week late.
iheartfamke 17th-Feb-2012 01:42 am (UTC)
oh god I've seen this twice on my feed, one from an army wife and one from a recruit who hasn't seen active duty.
sandstorm 16th-Feb-2012 03:47 pm (UTC)
I totally agree. I was very surprised to hear that this was even being considered.
hello_samm 16th-Feb-2012 03:47 pm (UTC)
ia with you, though. I just had to reiterate my Facebook feed for some lulz.
deceitful 16th-Feb-2012 03:47 pm (UTC)
I agree
grumpibear501 16th-Feb-2012 03:48 pm (UTC)
I agree with you. Unless you made some sort of impact (other than culturally/musically), but where you contributed to making society as a whole better or something devastating has happened (as you said, bombings, 9/11, military, etc), I don't think flags should be lowered.

However, if they ARE going to lower them for cultural figures (ie, Springsteen, JBJ), then Whitney should be no exception.
_cheshire 16th-Feb-2012 03:57 pm (UTC)
ia

yeah, she touched a lot of lives with her music or whatever, but at the end of the day she was an entertainer.
fukd_by_sugar 16th-Feb-2012 03:59 pm (UTC)
Agree
stfuabel 16th-Feb-2012 04:10 pm (UTC)
mte.

before she died she was ridiculed for being a drug addict, pretty much the joke of hollywood, and now everyone is praising her? same with Michael Jackson. it's ridiculous.
yououghtaknow 16th-Feb-2012 04:16 pm (UTC)
ita
kvetch_kvetch 16th-Feb-2012 04:23 pm (UTC)
i agree with you EXCEPT in the case of bruce. he is a new jersey institution, and the cultural and political impact he's had on the state is of such a caliber that NOT to honor him in such a way would be insane.


idk i am also a springsteen stan and that may be clouding my judgment
gramfaernes 16th-Feb-2012 04:24 pm (UTC)
Pretty much this.
bnmc2005 16th-Feb-2012 04:33 pm (UTC)
iawt
sprinklebell 16th-Feb-2012 04:35 pm (UTC)
I'm from NJ, hello! I read this in one of our local papers but apparently Whitney and Clarence Clemons are the only two celebrities that the flag had been lowered for. It's not as if we are only morning celebrities here. I don't think anything's wrong with it.

Also, I don't know if you've ever been to Newark but It's come a long way in the last decade. Big ups to anyone that comes from there
demi32 16th-Feb-2012 04:48 pm (UTC)
They also lowered it when Frank Sinatra died
jmonkey3152 16th-Feb-2012 04:58 pm (UTC)
IA but I'm not surprised especially since our neighbor state's governor ordered flags at half-staff for Joe Paterno. And no matter what criticism Whitney may ever draw for her poor life decisions, nothing she's done could ever compare to JoePa's ultimate poor choice.
sillywalter 16th-Feb-2012 05:04 pm (UTC)
I agree.

While researching the DV controversy surrounding CB and other celebrities, I found somewhere today that she admitted to being the abuser in her marriage to BB. Made me think thrice about worshipping at her alter... Drugs, abuse...

The flag thing is for people who serve to make life better for others. People who are selfless, in other words.
invisible_cunt 16th-Feb-2012 05:09 pm (UTC)
were flags lowered in indiana after mj's passing?
greyfilm 16th-Feb-2012 05:23 pm (UTC)
I'm probably going to get a lot of crap for this but I'm going to say it anyway.

No. Because this:

I don't care that there had been drug use in her past or the circumstances of her death but the lowering of the flag, at least to me, is for major events (such as the Oklahoma City Bombing or 9/11), or the passing of military, law enforcement, firefighters, elected officials, etc.

Is accurate.
__nocturna 16th-Feb-2012 05:26 pm (UTC)
iawtc
bettalaylow 16th-Feb-2012 05:30 pm (UTC)
No offense but people need to get off their high horse. This is America the same country where more people vote for the winner of American idol than the Presidential election. And elected officials are more deserving surely you jest because there isn't one elected official in NJ that deserves that honor.
patiently 16th-Feb-2012 07:09 pm (UTC)
I agree but come on. It's New Jersey.
brokenbeauty08 16th-Feb-2012 11:30 pm (UTC)
I disagree. She was an American Icon and a African American woman who broke barriers in film and music. Flags should being flown half staff from her home state.


Edited at 2012-02-16 11:37 pm (UTC)
andromakhe001 17th-Feb-2012 10:19 am (UTC)
Oh no they wouldn't people in NJ wouldn't say a thing if it was Bon Jovi or Springsteen.

I know I live here, they didn't even bitch last year when they were flown at half staff for Clarence Clemons. So it really is JUST because it's Whitney and that's just not right. I'm not even a fan of hers but she made a big impact and she lived here(I don't know if she still did but I know she lived here for a long time after she got famous).
cpb1220 18th-Feb-2012 03:44 am (UTC)
Springsteen and Bon Jovi are NJ institutions. Flags will be lowered for them and no one will say a thing in opposition.
when_itsizzles 16th-Feb-2012 04:13 pm (UTC)
yeah ia.

i dont live in nj anymore, but im glad he did it. im holding my tongue from saying something on fb about it.

she was from nj and someone we should be proud of as a state for the good things she accomplished in her life.

i know PLENTY of soldiers who are drug addicts, but would NEVER say that their addiction is something that should strip them of their honor.
bettalaylow 16th-Feb-2012 05:24 pm (UTC)
Great comment.
xtinkerbellax 16th-Feb-2012 04:28 pm (UTC)
IA.
troy_macclure 16th-Feb-2012 05:43 pm (UTC)
mte
aujourlejour 16th-Feb-2012 07:19 pm (UTC)
"Wow, I...cannot...believe...that Christie and I agree one something."

LOL MTE. hell has frozen over.
deethy 16th-Feb-2012 11:08 pm (UTC)
ikr for once christie makes sense
maisontv 16th-Feb-2012 03:46 pm (UTC)
I hate Christie but I have to (grudgingly) give him respect for this. Addiction is a battle that not everybody wins, and we shouldn't think less of somebody who struggles with it.
yummyhead2toe 16th-Feb-2012 03:49 pm (UTC)
SICK. Anti Christie now.
littlebones 16th-Feb-2012 03:53 pm (UTC)
ew what?
smackfrikinwhat 16th-Feb-2012 03:57 pm (UTC)
Wait...Tom Corbett (the governor of PA) lowered flags for Paterno, not Chris Christie.
reginageorge 16th-Feb-2012 03:57 pm (UTC)
WAIT JUST KIDDING THAT WAS MY OWN GOVERNOR TOM CORBETT IM MIXING THESE TWO AWFUL GOVERNORS UP I AM SORRY
yummyhead2toe 16th-Feb-2012 03:48 pm (UTC)
Jersey City bitches!

I think it is kinda weird that they would do that for her.
one_hoopy_frood 16th-Feb-2012 03:50 pm (UTC)
Also being a homophobic asshole. He has so many delightful attributes it is hard to choose just one.
hola_meg_a_cola 16th-Feb-2012 03:52 pm (UTC)
Comment cousins <3
bathstone 16th-Feb-2012 03:53 pm (UTC)
Still a jobless teacher. :'( I have slight hope for next year, though. I'm apping all over the state. I'll hold onto optimism because it would be devastating if I wasted the last few years. :( NJ public education is such a mess for several reasons. I could write a dissertation on that topic lol.
we_eat_coldcuts 16th-Feb-2012 04:03 pm (UTC)
I know it's odd to do this on ONTD, but is there an area that you specifically want to teach in? My mother is the HR director of an NJ school district and she is constantly looking for good teachers. If you like, you can shoot me a PM and I can tell you exactly where it is (and if you would still be interested if I tell you), and I can pass on information, etc.
invisible_cunt 16th-Feb-2012 05:12 pm (UTC)
go abroad bb
i'm in ontario, finishing my ed program in a couple months and the chances of me getting on a supply list are grim
i'm pretty much going to go the route of plan b and bug the shit out of the private jewish day schools here (even though i loathe having to teach spoiled shits)

i legit have no money and possibly have a job offer at starbucks when i get back home so imma just gonna work and save up money for a car, which is my priority right now. i do want to go abroad for a period of time though.
carbons 16th-Feb-2012 03:58 pm (UTC)
ugh i live in the philly suburbs and they're always playing commercials about how christie has ~turned education around~ and how much good he's done.

not falling for that bullshit.
harborafternoon 16th-Feb-2012 04:10 pm (UTC)
yeah, it's like two for you for showing respect to whit but i don't know how anyone rationalizes voting for you otherwise and in the grand scheme of things
satellite__eyes 16th-Feb-2012 05:03 pm (UTC)
For real. Fuck him.
I WANT A TEACHING JOB, DAMNIT.
yousaidlog 16th-Feb-2012 05:59 pm (UTC)
lol mte. supposedly, people love him ~outside of new jersey~ and want to start using his policies. i don't know how true that is, though.
hola_meg_a_cola 16th-Feb-2012 03:51 pm (UTC)
A broken clock's right twice a day.

But you're still a revolting piece of shit, Chris Christie. You're destroying New Jersey's education system, one of the best in the country. You've slashed the rights of union workers and tried to get rid of collective bargaining. I know you're gonna veto the gay marriage law that passed through Trenton.

I cannot wait until you're voted out of office next November.

/NJ expat
bettalaylow 16th-Feb-2012 05:31 pm (UTC)
I co-sign Christie will always be bullying asshole.
x_noisekisses 16th-Feb-2012 05:45 pm (UTC)
You're destroying New Jersey's education system, one of the best in the country.



that makes me so fucking mad. november cannot come soon enough.
hola_meg_a_cola 16th-Feb-2012 05:48 pm (UTC)
Next November, unfortunately. We (or rather, NJ since I've recently moved abroad) have to deal with this pig for another year. And as much as everyone rags on NJ, I remember reading an article that says we have one of the best overall systems in the country and one of the only ones that can compete internationally.
j_o_n_n_o 16th-Feb-2012 03:51 pm (UTC)
urgh the people who go out of their way to explicitly say "I don't care about whitney she was an addict what about the soldiers etc" are the worst.
one_hoopy_frood 16th-Feb-2012 03:53 pm (UTC)
I am so sick of "What about the soldiers?????!?!?!" concern trolling
reginageorge 16th-Feb-2012 03:55 pm (UTC)
I. HATE. THOSE. PEOPLE. and what people were saying when steve jobs died like OK I GET IT THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE DYING IN THE WORLD TOO AND ITS AWFUL WHAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE TO GO THROUGH IN THEIR LIFETIME BUT JUST SHUT UPPPPPPPPPP
haverchuck_bill 16th-Feb-2012 03:58 pm (UTC)
agreed.
lachica2000 16th-Feb-2012 04:00 pm (UTC)
I wonder if these people are aware that the soldiers are twice as likely as civilians to abuse alcohol ans other substances.
xtinkerbellax 16th-Feb-2012 04:30 pm (UTC)
IDGI what one has to do with the other. She's famous, they aren't, unless you die a very tragic death you likely aren't going to make the 6 o'clock news. That being said I see the news mention soldiers deaths' all the time.
omgigi 16th-Feb-2012 03:54 pm (UTC)
why are people so butthurt about this?? addict or not, she was a legend and if her home state wants to honor her this way who the hell cares?
sastra_fuss 16th-Feb-2012 03:56 pm (UTC)
Like elected officials or people that were in the military don't do drugs...
grumpibear501 16th-Feb-2012 03:58 pm (UTC)
your comment made me laugh the most lol. A+
haverchuck_bill 16th-Feb-2012 03:57 pm (UTC)
I think people just like to have something to bitch about. I see nothing wrong here.
riookierin 16th-Feb-2012 03:57 pm (UTC)
I thought this gesture was really, really kind of him. Despite her mistakes along the way, the woman is a true legend and her talent has undoubtedly influenced and touched millions.
heartlockedx 16th-Feb-2012 04:00 pm (UTC)
First good thing this fat bastard has done. Now, can he give us back our school budget?
Anyway, I'm not even going to comment on the whole "what about the soldiers?" thing, as a veteran's wife I think it's fucking ridiculous and unnecessary.
mcwicca 16th-Feb-2012 04:01 pm (UTC)
"I am disturbed by people who believe that because her ultimate demise — and we don't know what is the cause of her death yet — but because of her history of substance abuse that somehow she's forfeited the good things that she did in her life," said the governor during a briefing in northern New Jersey. "I just reject that on a human level."

Respect tbh.
hola_meg_a_cola 16th-Feb-2012 04:03 pm (UTC)
He can be pretty good on certain things. When he nominated a Muslim lawyer for some high position (I forget which), other Repubs gave him shit for it and he basically told them to piss off.
riookierin 16th-Feb-2012 04:14 pm (UTC)
Ia. Some things he manages to get right.
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