ONTD

6:56 pm - 04/12/2009

Online censorship? Amazon strips ranking of Gay and Lesbian books.

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One of the most powerful indicators of how a book is doing sales wise and can be a leading factor for generating or killing interest in a book. Though many factors go into the sales ranking system, the primary driving factor has been sales-number of books sold. Using that method, a shopper could look at similar titles within a genre and see which books were generating sales. The method however, now seems altered, in a manner that feels similar to the unsavory practice of banning books.

Amazon isn't actually no longer selling the books, of course, but it is delisting “adult” titles from the sales ranking system. Which would seem like a fine policy, if it were applied equally. But as an online petition points out the following publications remain on the sales ranking system:

-Playboy: The Complete Centerfolds by Chronicle Books (pictures of over 600 naked women)
--Rosemary Rogers' Sweet Savage Love" (explicit heterosexual romance);
--Kathleen Woodiwiss' The Wolf and the Dove (explicit heterosexual romance);
--Bertrice Smal's Skye o'Malley which are all explicit heterosexual romances
--and Alan Moore's Lost Girls (which is a very explicit sexual graphic novel)

while the following LGBT books have been removed:

--Radclyffe Hill's classic novel about lesbians in Victorian times, The Well of Loneliness, and which contains not one sentence of sexual description;
--Mark R Probst's YA novel The Filly about a young man in the wild West discovering that he's gay (gay romance, no sex);
--Charlie Cochrane's Lessons in Love (gay romance with no sex);
--The Dictionary of Homophobia: A Global History of Gay & Lesbian Experience, edited by Louis-George Tin (non-fiction, history and social issues);
--and Homophobia: A History by Bryan Fone (non-fiction, focus on history and the forms prejudice against homosexuality has taken over the years).

Overall, the sales rank delisting may seem like a minor issue, but it can have a very serious impact for publishers and authors of lesser known works which depend on the sales ranking to get noticed and help spread the word. Amazon pulls unranked books from search results.

Amazon defends its position in a statement from Ashlyn D of Amazon.com Member Services

"In consideration of our entire customer base, we exclude "adult" material from appearing in some searches and best seller lists. Since these lists are generated using sales ranks, adult materials must also be excluded from that feature.”

So the question is, is Amazon hurting LGBT customers who enjoy and purchase even non adult LGBT themed work to prevent offending the rest of the customer base? If that's the case, Amazon may have some resistance to that policy, as grass roots efforts are taking shape to object directly to Amazon; like this press release from Erica Friedman of Yuricon & ALC Publishing:

Amazon De-ranks "Adult" Books?

This is not a crisis, nor should we run screaming, but I think it is important
enough that every reader, writer, publisher, editor and all champions of
freedom of expression should take note. Amazon has changed its policy and
has de-ranked books that it deems "adult" in nature. This includes anything
they count as erotica and many non-adult LGBT books, as well.

I do not advocate being outraged. Outrage accomplishes nothing. I *do* advocate
a polite, but firm letter campaign asking that Amazon allow sales to indicate
sales rank and nothing else. I distrust their definition of "adult" if it does not
include Twilight, but does include Annie on My Mind.

Please make a firm request that all books be ranked and that they do not involve
behavior that can be seen as censorship or "protection." Please feel free to
Digg this or forward it to MLs, forums, sites, etc. The more people who protest
politely, the more of an impact we can make.

You can contact the Amazon Executive customer service email at ecr@amazon.com, call the customer service phone number: 1-800-201-7575 or login to your Amazon account and visit: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/contact-us/general-questions.html?ie=UTF8&browse_node_id=468496

As a publisher of LGBT comics, as a reader of whatever I want to read,
as a member of the community of humans that prefers to think for myself, I ask
for your support against this misguided policy.

Erica Friedman
President
Yuricon & ALC Publishing

And the online petition mentioned earlier, sponsored by J Spencer, frames the question quite candidly:

Please tell us, Amazon, why the explicit books with a heterosexual focus are allowed to keep their sales ratings while the non-explicit romances, the histories and the biographies that deal with LGBTQ issues are not.

We would love to hear your reasoning.

How will Amazon react to the outrage caused by this misstep that appears to be online censorship?



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edit: a list of some of the deranked books http://community.livejournal.com/meta_writer/11992.html
Thanks, broken_enemy

Also - http://community.livejournal.com/ontd_political/2799767.html




SOURCE
[info]iamcheryltweedy gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 12:41 am (UTC)
the first result when you search for "homosexuality" is a Parenting Guide to Preventing Homosexuality.

FUCK YOU, Amazon.
[info]fffireburns Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 12:43 am (UTC)
omg what
[info]surferxchris Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 12:43 am (UTC)
Wow.
[info]0rganized_chaos Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 12:44 am (UTC)
That's fucked up.
[info]jamieisfrench Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 12:44 am (UTC)
lol good
[info]waterylights Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 12:44 am (UTC)
obvious homophobic trolling stopped being funny about twenty posts ago. just shut the fuck up already. it's tired.
[info]anti_moralist Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 01:20 am (UTC)
MTE
[info]dolcetta Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 03:31 am (UTC)
ilusfm
[info]squishtoy Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 05:09 am (UTC)
lol
oh, you.
[info]waterylights Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 12:44 am (UTC)
oh my god
[info]killerspork33 Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 12:44 am (UTC)
Ironically, the second search for 'lesbian' is Lesbian Couples: A Guide to Creating Healthy Relationships.

Maybe they just don't like gay men?
[info]la_bandida Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 12:45 am (UTC)
That's fucking ridiculous!
[info]ms_firecrotch Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 12:47 am (UTC)
that's fucking ridiculous
[info]invaderscythe Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 12:47 am (UTC)
Seriously? Wtf Amazon! DDDDDD:
[info]_deatheater Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 12:50 am (UTC)
but the second thing is "homosexuality...fiction" lol
[info]treradical Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 12:53 am (UTC)
WTF. ugh that angers me so much >:O
[info]mossharts Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 12:55 am (UTC)
WTF? That's fucking ridiculous.
[info]patbjorke Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 12:58 am (UTC)
That's a damn shame.
[info]askmehowifeel Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 12:58 am (UTC)
oh my god, that makes me sick
[info]annemarie272727 Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 12:59 am (UTC)
That's fucked up
[info]mindofthebeheld Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 01:00 am (UTC)
I don't really understand how they can get away with that, really. Have that being the first result, and then censoring books that have NO EXPLICIT MATERIAL in it.

It makes me mad that they think they can get away with that.
[info]just4ontd Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 01:02 am (UTC)
lmao, good luck with that parents!
[info]smirk_dog Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 01:02 am (UTC)
seriously? wow.
[info]drtenenbaum Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 01:02 am (UTC)
Could that be because that is what parents are searching for the most in that topic? jw
[info]juanitatequila Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 01:04 am (UTC)
Wow...
[info]nappyxheadedxho WHAT THE FUCK13th-Apr-2009 01:08 am (UTC)
One of the reviewers :
After witnessing certain behaviors displayed by my four year old son over a period of about 2 years, I felt in my heart that we had a child who was wonderful but was certainly not the norm. We have raised three grown children before him so I think I can speak from motherly experience.

WHAT THE FUCK! HES ONLY FOUR YEARS OLD, YOU DIPSHIT. LEAVE HIM ALONE.
[info]youbeboy Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 01:08 am (UTC)
Damn son.
[info]endearlings Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 01:09 am (UTC)
woah wtf
[info]youbeboy Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 01:09 am (UTC)
8. You Don't Have to Be Gay: Hope and Freedom for Males Struggling With Homosexuality or for Those Who Know of Someone Who Is
[info]ambeaux Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 01:12 am (UTC)
THIS!

Heather Has Two Mommies has been deranked but American Psycho has not. Which book has adult content?? I asked them this on the phone this morning...
[info]kyoto19 Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 01:14 am (UTC)
I love being gay sfm. I can't believe how afraid or almost ashamed I used to be of it when I was like 14.
[info]somethinguseful Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 01:18 am (UTC)
Ugh. The following titles after the initial one are no better. Particularly: "You Don't Have to Be Gay." Urgghhh. Full of fail.
[info]breadsandwiches Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 01:19 am (UTC)
that's fucked up
[info]pepto_abysmal Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 01:28 am (UTC)
That is so fucking wrong.
[info]arctic_blossom Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 01:28 am (UTC)
Wow. That shit is fucking ridiculous.
[info]urizanegao Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 01:29 am (UTC)
D:
[info]specially_me Actually the top 7 results are13th-Apr-2009 01:30 am (UTC)
The top 7 results are against homosexuality.
Ways to prevent it, ways the bible speaks against it, can it be "healed"?

FAIL.

I will NEVER buy anything from amazon again.
BTW homosexuality isn't a sickness anyone needs to be healed from.
FUCK you amazon.
[info]la_bellaviidaxo Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 01:36 am (UTC)
WOW
[info]alicecantdance Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 02:12 am (UTC)
Fucking helllll.
[info]lavander_girl15 Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 02:17 am (UTC)
wow
[info]adamsdramedy Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 02:28 am (UTC)
Link? I need to read this for a good lol.
[info]pepto_abysmal Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 02:29 am (UTC)
I just emailed them this:

Following your decision to delist LGBT books from Amazon Rank, I will no longer be doing any business with Amazon.com. The fact that the #1 book if you search for "homosexuality" is 'A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality by Joseph Nicolosi and Linda Ames Nicolosi' is not only hugely offensive to a large part of your customer base, but also dangerous. This book has been the cause of countless suicides and murders, and to have it listed as the #1 book is disgusting. The fact that it took me 1.5 seconds to find this sex toy: 'Large Red Boy from Doc Johnson by ButtPlugProducts', makes the whole delisting process a joke. No apology or gesture for this will ever be big enough to solve the damage caused to a minority, which to this day is being persucated by the general public, religious groups, the government - and now your company. I hope you're proud of yourselves.

Sincerely,

[insert my name]
[info]purpleplague Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 02:34 am (UTC)
that is disgusting
[info]valyazhnaya Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 02:43 am (UTC)
As far as I know, Amazon uses "relevance ranking" in its search engine, so, as someone alluded to earlier, it has less to do with Amazon making a value judgment, and more of a reflection of what its users are looking for. Which is still sad.
[info]lolzerz Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 02:46 am (UTC)
wait are you a guy or a lesbian?
[info]kate_isgreat Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 02:57 am (UTC)
wow thats fucking terrible. what the hell are they even thinking?
[info]deerlike Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 03:40 am (UTC)
Ugh, seriously? >:o
[info]ashe_frost Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 05:01 am (UTC)
WTF? That's ridiculous.
[info]josephturner Re: gay & proud13th-Apr-2009 05:25 am (UTC)
Wow, I just had the same result!!!

I searched 'homosexuality' on amazon.ca and got 'Someday This Pain Will Be Useful To You by Peter Cameron', 'The Gay Man's Kama Sutra by Terry Sanderson', and 'Stories From the War on Homosexuality' as the top 3.
[info]sweetmizre 13th-Apr-2009 12:42 am (UTC)
i don't think there will be an outrage
[info]desultory6 13th-Apr-2009 12:43 am (UTC)
The outrage has been happening all day.
[info]sweetmizre 13th-Apr-2009 12:47 am (UTC)
ah - i personally had *no* clue ... & i never use amazon.com. i can't into the online shopping thing ... i have to go to a store and hold my item first.
[info]piratesswoop 13th-Apr-2009 12:42 am (UTC)
Godamn you, I just posted this too, lol.

[info]nuravecunt 13th-Apr-2009 12:43 am (UTC)
I was JUST about to say I like this graphic better
[info]hardcoresince3 13th-Apr-2009 12:43 am (UTC)
so do I!
[info]witnessthine 13th-Apr-2009 01:05 am (UTC)
yeah amazNO is a bit awkward.
[info]missslet 13th-Apr-2009 12:42 am (UTC)
WTF That is bullshit
[info]il0veyou4 13th-Apr-2009 02:41 am (UTC)
preach it sista. I bought a book from Amazon like 3 years ago. Never again!
[info]sacre_blah 13th-Apr-2009 12:47 am (UTC)
hugs you.
[info]bloodlolli 13th-Apr-2009 12:48 am (UTC)
[info]iamcheryltweedy 13th-Apr-2009 12:49 am (UTC)
<3
[info]vdoeschallenge 13th-Apr-2009 12:51 am (UTC)
i'm kinda sad bc i was going to order some books this week, but whatever, i'll be taking my business elsewhere.
[info]moonsetsky 13th-Apr-2009 01:38 am (UTC)
http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/

Free delivery worldwide, pretty decent with estimated time of delivery and all that. :)
[info]ms_firecrotch 13th-Apr-2009 12:52 am (UTC)
i hope everyone does this.
[info]veritaebugie 13th-Apr-2009 12:58 am (UTC)
yeah dude

i'm seriously considering not being a customer anymore despite how convenient and cheap amazon is :(
why do companies need be so ridic? they were fine before and now they're suddenly alienating part of their customer base?
[info]arxev 13th-Apr-2009 01:08 am (UTC)
I didn't have any orders but I cleaned out my shopping lists and my seller account and contacted their customer service.
[info]ambeaux 13th-Apr-2009 01:22 am (UTC)
I called them. Twice.

And deleted my wish list.

asshats.
[info]antique_faery 13th-Apr-2009 02:08 am (UTC)
Same here! I could have saved $40 by buying an iPod through them, but this just turned my stomach and I cancelled. At least I can have it engraved this way, I guess.

My main dilemma now is that I have an Amazon Kindle 2. :/
[info]withoutyoursmil 13th-Apr-2009 02:33 am (UTC)
mte. i guess i'm not ordering shit from them anymore,
[info]piratesswoop 13th-Apr-2009 12:42 am (UTC)
[info]mikee414 13th-Apr-2009 12:43 am (UTC)
Who are the BFs or husbands in your icon?
[info]piratesswoop 13th-Apr-2009 12:49 am (UTC)
Spanish tennis players Feliciano Lopez & Fernando Verdasco. They're not really gay, but...you know...they cuddle so much they just fuel my hopes.




[info]iamcheryltweedy 13th-Apr-2009 12:50 am (UTC)
yep, it's fucking repulsive

that book is responsible for killing people, and that's no exaggeration
[info]veritaebugie 13th-Apr-2009 12:59 am (UTC)
if i believed in banning books, this would be at the top of the list
[info]mo_joe 13th-Apr-2009 01:05 am (UTC)
i say we burn Joseph Nicolosi and Linda Ames Nicolosi at the stake.
[info]shutterdragon 13th-Apr-2009 01:32 am (UTC)
this literally makes me wanna puke.
[info]mikee414 13th-Apr-2009 12:43 am (UTC)
Amazon is like the Prop 8 of the online buying world.
[info]jamieisfrench 13th-Apr-2009 12:43 am (UTC)
so? homosexuality is wrong...
[info]ociousity 13th-Apr-2009 12:45 am (UTC)
wot?
[info]jamieisfrench 13th-Apr-2009 12:46 am (UTC)
being gay in unnatural :/
[info]waterylights 13th-Apr-2009 12:47 am (UTC)
don't feed the troll.
[info]schmiss 13th-Apr-2009 12:46 am (UTC)






[info]invaderscythe 13th-Apr-2009 12:48 am (UTC)
Gtfo.
[info]iamcheryltweedy 13th-Apr-2009 12:50 am (UTC)
shut up and stop fucking trolling, you immature, vapid douche
[info]piratesswoop 13th-Apr-2009 12:50 am (UTC)
can you please give your valid reasons why you think homosexuality is wrong and please don't use the bible as there are millions of people who don't believe in it, and tbh it isn't a valid excuse

Edited at 2009-04-13 12:52 am (UTC)
[info]toy_soldierrr 13th-Apr-2009 12:53 am (UTC)
Come at me, bitch.
[info]stevinmichael 13th-Apr-2009 12:53 am (UTC)
LOL @ you stating homosexuality being wrong but suppourting Lady Gaga, who loves the gays and who songs are about bisexuality. asshole.
[info]passions_voice 13th-Apr-2009 12:53 am (UTC)
That falsity only applies to narrow minded people like you. People who have a brain and heart know otherwise.
[info]vdoeschallenge 13th-Apr-2009 12:53 am (UTC)
why do you think it's wrong? who does it hurt and how?

also, even if it is 'wrong' does that mean that it can be censored? amazon still lists books about abortion and i bet you think that's wrong too.
[info]kerrence 13th-Apr-2009 12:55 am (UTC)
don't even tempt me to picspam your useless ass with hot same-sex makeout sessions.
[info]fancifull 13th-Apr-2009 12:57 am (UTC)
oh, you.
[info]fearlesst15 13th-Apr-2009 01:02 am (UTC)
I'd leave final judgement to God and until then, love thy neighbor.

I don't care if "the Bible says it's wrong."

What's wrong is acting as if love is wrong, evil, or a sin, just because it doesn't involve a man and a woman. It's not an abnormality, it's not the work of the devil. Love isn't the work of the devil. Hate is. Using the Bible to spread hate? Have fun with that one.

Btw - I'm straight. I've had my years of religious education. I've read the Bible.

You can have your opinion, but hate isn't an opinion. It's ignorance.
[info]charlie 13th-Apr-2009 01:02 am (UTC)
ugh people are still trolling?
[info]smirk_dog 13th-Apr-2009 01:03 am (UTC)
Um. No. Lady GaGa is wrong.
[info]juanitatequila 13th-Apr-2009 01:07 am (UTC)
UCK.
[info]hybridismarion 13th-Apr-2009 01:14 am (UTC)
Homosexuality is so sexy it hurts.
[info]la_bellaviidaxo 13th-Apr-2009 01:35 am (UTC)
lol, oh you gaga fans!
[info]itsnoelle 13th-Apr-2009 01:36 am (UTC)
~omg you're not allowed ot have your own opinion~
[info]fallenwarrior 13th-Apr-2009 02:57 am (UTC)
And so is being a hate-mongering whore...but I don't judge you. :D
[info]megisthesex 13th-Apr-2009 03:13 am (UTC)
says the person with the gaga icon. you're aware she's bi right?
[info]celtic_thistle 13th-Apr-2009 03:41 am (UTC)
I hope you die. Horribly.
[info]cookie_nut 13th-Apr-2009 03:49 am (UTC)
Troll moar.
[info]dirtyknife 13th-Apr-2009 04:08 am (UTC)
You are such a little cunt.
[info]red_maven 13th-Apr-2009 04:48 am (UTC)
According to you. But you alone don't make up this country, and one day there might be something about you that people don't like and try to take your freedom away because of it.
[info]schmiss 13th-Apr-2009 12:43 am (UTC)
There's an [info]ontd_political post about this bullshit here. Apparently Amazon is already backpedaling.
[info]mikee414 13th-Apr-2009 12:43 am (UTC)
Backpedaling how?
[info]schmiss 13th-Apr-2009 12:45 am (UTC)
"It's an accident", "we're fixing it", etc etc etc.
[info]rule1122 13th-Apr-2009 12:43 am (UTC)
lgbt...q? wtf.
[info]piratesswoop 13th-Apr-2009 12:44 am (UTC)
queer.
[info]vdoeschallenge 13th-Apr-2009 12:54 am (UTC)
oh, i thought it was sometimes 'questioning'. well there are a lot of acronyms...
[info]yay_4_me 13th-Apr-2009 01:06 am (UTC)
Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgendered ....Queer?
[info]iamcheryltweedy 13th-Apr-2009 12:44 am (UTC)
queer
[info]schmiss 13th-Apr-2009 12:46 am (UTC)
Quaker oats.
[info]latently 13th-Apr-2009 12:47 am (UTC)
quizzle
[info]kindafunnysad 13th-Apr-2009 12:50 am (UTC)
qritney
[info]kindafunnysad 13th-Apr-2009 12:43 am (UTC)
Who cares about gays anyway, it's not like they're like normal people or anything.
[info]jamieisfrench 13th-Apr-2009 12:44 am (UTC)
ikr they are heathens
[info]annemarie272727 13th-Apr-2009 01:01 am (UTC)
Oh my god
[info]lameasslivi 13th-Apr-2009 12:44 am (UTC)
hi miley
go read the bible by your pool and twit around
[info]latently 13th-Apr-2009 12:43 am (UTC)
Oh yeah, Heather Has Two Mommies is really fucking pornographic.

Fuck Amazon.
[info]surferxchris 13th-Apr-2009 12:43 am (UTC)
wow. just wow.
[info]waterylights 13th-Apr-2009 12:43 am (UTC)
i'm seriously so fucking upset about this shit. fuck amazon.
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